I think weâre nitpicking a bit here. The larger point still stands. If the offense you have implemented or the manner in which you run your offense does not instill confidence within your players, or you as a coach donât instill confidence within your players, then itâs going to become very difficult to score consistently. If you want to eliminate a player I mentioned from the list, thatâs perfectly fine, but it doesnât change the overarching idea, which I believe has enough data points (poor shooting performance and March losses) to prove is correct.
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I forgot about Hall. Great memory. Iâll list him as my third.
Beekman was reluctant/scared to shoot when he got there and still was when he left. Brogdon went from 37% his first year as a starter to 39% his third year as a starter. I just donât think of those guys and say to myself, âWow, they improved so much as a shooter at UVA.â
Hard to respond to your argument, which is a pretty sweeping statement that Tonyâs offense doesnât instill confidence in his players and you use two data points to back it upâ only two players improved their three point shooting under Tony and lack of March success. Other posters here identified 4 additional players who played a lot and improved their three point shooting considerably, which you dismiss as nitpicking or marginal. And as for your other data point, lack of March success, thatâs much more of a recent phenomena since 2014 to 2019 saw three seasons end with a national championship, final 8 and sweet 16. I think thereâs lots of contrary data to your argument as well, including several players who played in Tonyâs system who exuded offensive confidence such as Mike Scott, Joe Harris, Brogdon, Hunter, Guy, Jerome and Sam Hauser. Not sure youâre convincible at this point though.
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Haha relax buddy. I didnât dismiss anything. I just respectfully disagreed. I donât think youâd disagree thereâs been a stark contrast in offensive success since 2020. Weâve had two different seasons outside the top 200 in KenPom offensive efficiency (another data point for you). And data can be misleading, whereas the eye test usually isnât. Three consecutive years (and 4 of the last 5) weâve had teams with more players scared to shoot than players who arenât. How is that not a reflection on the coaching and offensive system in place? Hard to blame the players when itâs different sets of players but the same system and staff.
And I didnât even mention the FT shooting the last few seasons. YikesâŚ
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I look forward to the day when we can be happy for former playersâ success without turning into a referendum, positively or negatively. Not everything is about where they went to college.
Dunnâs offensive issues were mostly about Dunn, he just never found his feet in college. When a player isnât comfortable, shooting is where it shows up most. Different game in the NBA, less thinkingâŚthe spacing helps him tooâŚin a weird way, you donât need to be as skilled with the ball to make plays in the NBA as you do in college. His problems may have been exacerbated at UVA where the style is a bit more collegey, but doubt it would have been a lot different elsewhere.
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Instead of blaming TB, Iâm giving Dunn credit for working his ass off to get better, simplify his form, and overcome the âChuck Knoblauch yipsâ that he had last year.
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Yeah I mean if I spent a couple months working out with KD and Devin Booker fresh off Olympic gold, I bet Iâd shoot better too
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Wonder if RD didnt fair well in NBA pre draft stuff if he would have come back to Virginia. Imma guess no
Please start new tangent and discuss safely
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Depends. How do you shoot now?
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It was a hypothetical, just making the point that itâs not too hard to understand RD shooting better now that he can focus strictly on basketball (no school) and workout with the likes of Book and KD
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Yes, but how do you shoot now? Hahah
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There was that Kentucky rivals smoke from their insider that someone in the Dunn Camp or his agent was putting out feelers at other schools. And I think some of that smoke was maybe confirmed on the UVA side.
THAT BEING SAID; Dunn hopefully being solid along with Murphy and Hauser will help keep UVAâs presence in the NBA news. Jerome too hopefully.
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I donât/canât. I donât wanna dig into my many health issues on here but have a lot of chronic pain including a lot of hypermobility in both shoulders. Last time I shot hoops was years ago and legit thought I tore something I was in so much pain.
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Ah my bad but thanks for letting me know. My point was I care about you not the thing of shooting and getting better at it if that makes sense
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Anyone remember the comparisons of Ryan Dunn to DeAndre Hunter? Looking better now.
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Honestly, probably going to be when we win a tournament game again. Everybodyâs been on edge for years. Not saying itâs right or fair, but man we need a win. Then everybody can chill a little.
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Dunn is better
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Dunn was straight up told, as verified by him when he left the program, and described by CTB paraphrased, but close, to the media,
âIf itâs wide open, take it, but focus on your rebounding and your defense.â
Post players have been told on film review after missing wide open jumpers, paraphrased, ânot a bad shot but maybe you could swing it to (player x perceived as a better shooter).â
Iâm not sure how one could make the argument that doesnât have a negative impact on shooting because the communication is, not subtly, this isnt your strength or your role and thatâs reinforced on misses.
If youâre a player who wants to play his role dutifully and care about the program, as most we recruit are, thatâs going to be in your mind when you shoot in a game.
Itâs absolutely something we should reflect on. Maybe we donât need to have so many defined shooting/non-shooting roles (anyone remember that video of Caffaro working out/shooting threes after transferring out? That one was wild). Or maybe bigs with developing jumpers when theyâre wide open could be told these are good shots and encouraged to take them rather than the underlying tone of âif you have to.â
I know one recruiting pitch other programs make to players who have left us is showing them video of shots they donât take and telling them âif you DONT shoot that for our program we pull you.â
Just a thought, and not absolving the players entirely but this is kind of psych 101 stuff and it also explains why not all players have this happen to them because some do just have the green light. When conscientious players think you donât want them to shoot, they are less likely to⌠shoot. Or shoot it well when they do.
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I agree with you on everything else but at the same time there has yet to be a transfer out of UVA that thrived elsewhere outside maybe Shayok (and that was worth DeAndre Hunterâs minutes). Maybe Igor at Tennessee surrounded by better players and better coaching weâll see. Morsell as a 5th year sorta counts but his efficiency was meh and heâs not NBA bound
Yet to lose much sleep over our transfer outs.
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Itâs one thing if a player is a bad shooter and has no conscience to reign them in because other guys arenât getting opportunity - but thatâs a far leap from discouraging guys who maybe take 1-3 wide open jumpers a game within the flow of an offense, especially one that may struggle to generate open looks to begin with.
That point isnât about losing transfers out - itâs about the empowering shooting mindset being communicated elsewhere as a sharp contrast.
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