Think this thread is undervaluing Notre Dame lumping them in with the likes of GT and Wake as one giant tier. 8th winningest program of all time. Flagship Catholic school in the country. Major brand recognition as an overall athletic department. Iād have them a fairly comfortable 4th after the UNC + Duke top two and then Louisville as the clear 3rd
2 Likes
Guys- we have won 6/11 acc regular championships. NC state hasnāt won an acc regular season title since 1989. Three weeks ago- who was their candidate pool?
1 Like
Miami job is top 7 if their spending budget stays where it is. Plus youāre recruiting to Miami.
After UNC and Duke, I think weāre in the next tier with Louisville, Cuse, State, Miami. Could probably make a case for each of those teams to be 3 or down to 7.
Football I get.
Just not sure theyāre that highly regarded for hoops. Theyāve been to one Final 4, and it was 46 years ago.
āGiantā might be the wrong term, but certainly thereās reasons to see potential. Raleigh is a good sized city that would appeal to a wide variety of kids. Itās located well geographically for drawing talent from across the mid-Atlantic and southeast, drivable from GA or DC to TN, tons of top talent in that region. NC Stateās academics are respectable but also not prohibitive to getting kids admitted / keeping them eligible. Fans absolutely see the school as a ābasketball schoolā moreso than football, same as the other NC mafia ACC schools. The resourcing in terms of donor support is solid, and no reason to think their kids donāt have the potential to make good NIL. Facilities I think are good, as they share a nice pro arena.
Obviously the āright coachā makes all the difference, but even in Duke/Carolinaās shadow, I think itās a program that could be every bit on par with other high level non-Blue Bloods that could be an annual NCAAT contender.
2 Likes
Iām going to push back on the UVa is āuniqueā argument. All indications are the NIL money is there and available. We compete in a top-tier conference, our basketball facilities are top-notch, and fan base support is strong, if a bit self-loathing. Yes, we can be a bit more strict about academic standards than other schools, but itās not like we need every basketball player to be a future Rhodes Scholar.
Just look at Virginiaās other athletic programs, when those jobs opened, they were filled by guys who had won either coach of the year or assistant of the year awards at their prior jobs. If the basketball job opened up without a CTB-anointed succession plan, the Virginia job would be highly sought after by a lot of good coaches.
4 Likes
Iād say GT is being undervalued but as I said before not sure who Iād move out of their way. But thatās program that has shown the ability to have major success in certain moments. Itās in a recruiting hotbed with no major competing rivals in their backyard. And the school is in the beginning phases of a major facility overhaul so a new coach is going to walk into new facilities a ton of cash on hand from an engaged donor base.
It would be a build but compared to some places that only have tradition to build on GT has a lot of potential.
2 Likes
17 Sweet Sixteens and 8th in wins though. For context, GT only has 17 tournament appearances and isnāt in the top 50 in wins. Wake also isnāt even in the top 50 in wins. Brey also had sustained success at ND as recently as the 00ās and most of the 10ās. Just hard for me to buy those jobs are in the same tier. I donāt think anyone believes Shrewberry wouldāve left Penn State for Wake or GT or Pitt. Maybe he would have for Cuse or State?
Notre Dame is a top job in just about every sport. Donāt overthink it lol
I donāt see Stanford, Cal, and SMU on this list. smh
4 Likes
It was hard enough putting VT, BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Miami, Louisville & ND on there. Iāve only accepted FSU in the last few years.
2 Likes
This is a hard one. Cal is down but talent pool and resources are pretty great. Notre Dame is down but can get the money to be a contender quickly.
UNC, Duke, Louisville are the clear 1-2-3 but a lot of variability from there until like the bottom (VT, BC, Clemson) depending on what you value.
1 Like
Depends how you define that. The Jesuits would say itās Georgetownā¦ā¦(Technically, itās The Catholic University of America, but I digress.)
And, for football, youāre right. For basketball, thatās a program thatās probably behind Georgetown, Villanova, Gonzaga, and St. Johnās in terms of historical hoops success ā and even more recently definitely behind Villanova and Gonzaga.
1 Like
Feel like ND highlights the difficulty of lists like this. Shrews has IN roots. Why did he take the job? Was it flagship Catholic school plus great sports or just a power 6 gig, better than the one he had, in his home region?
One reason I donāt hate ND at 9th (or wherever) is because you have two jobs that are attractive for most anyone (Duke UNC ) then another thatās head and shoulders above the others in terms of local interest, arena, etc (Lville), and then you have a messy middle where preferences will get idiosyncratic (geographic, local ties, academic status, football as bigger brother, etc).
1 Like
Notre Dame is straight up more successful than St. Johnās. As for the other 3, Notre Dame has been consistently better than all of them. Their peak obviously isnāt as high as Nova, Gonzaga, or Georgetown but their median is higher than all of them. Really those programs were only measurably better than Notre Dame when they had their greatest coach in program history + 1 extra month for Nova
Also even if those schools are more successful they still donāt command the loyalty of Catholics around the country the way Notre Dame does. Maybe Georgetown did in the 80ās. But no one really cares that Nova or Gonzaga are Catholic schools the way they do with Notre Dame and BC
Generally agree there can be preferences that create different orders but there become some clear distinctions at a certain point. You want to argue State or Syracuse ahead of Notre Dame I wonāt put up too much of a fight. Reasonable case to be made given their Final Fours and National Titles. But at a certain point the gap in both achievement and resources becomes too much. 8th in all time wins and outside the top 50 are not comparable
Probably the more accurate way is to make a 4-7 tier of Notre Dame, UVA, Cuse, and State. Can debate those 4 based upon what you emphasize. Then the next tier 8-10 is Wake, GT, and Pitt. Can debate those 3 as well
1 Like
Excuse me? Youāre forgetting someone on that list
3 Likes
Another one @lodger96 forgot. And Seton Hall could have an argument too.
2 Likes
yāall are overthinking this one, while also massively overrating lvilleās attractiveness.
ville just hired a guy for $2.3. Tony makes over $4. his replacement probably wonāt make the same as tonyās exit rate, but i think the uva job might just be pretty attractive, despite all the nerdiness it entails.
3 Likes
Pittās too high. Iād stick them just above that Clemson, VT, BC tier and below the Florida schools. They have no natural recruiting base in the ACC and no real natural rivals except maybe Cuse.
2 Likes
State has been whiffing on coaches since Valvano left. And even Valvano was from Iona. They caught lightning in a bottle. Keatts came from UNC Wilmington after being snubbed by Archie Miller. A State alum. No ā¦ State is not a desired destination for tier 1 coaches.