- Same Starting 5
- Ugonna starts
- Jacari starts
- Chance starts
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voters
Reading through the vandy chat for tidbits of vanderbilt fans at the game. They are a little harsh on Hall (Im still a fan and I think just his presence will be huge for this team as they gel. He has a lot of value for this team over the season)
Uh oh @DFresh11 tell ur guy to fix the dribble?
āHall is a walk on at Vandyā yeah theyāre just a baseball school that apparently canāt use Google
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My takeaway on Hall:
- even before the game, I thought Hall would be somewhere between fine (floor) and good (ceiling)
- In the Vandy game, Hall played poorly
- With more data, we will know where Hall will land in between those parameters, and whether thereās a slight chance that the floor is lower or ceiling higher (than I think)
And then, question becomes how Halls outcome affects the team and whether Chance or something else (eg alter defense to account for Hall) can mitigate the floor.
5 Likes
Grains of salt abound since Genius Byington decided not to broadcast.
So Iām having to rely on counting stats and clumsy aggregation of eyewitness accounts
Tho I mean, the kindest account of his play was that Vandy designed a Hall-specific strategy and it worked. Which isnāt particularly kind, to be fair
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For a guy with as many high-major games as Hall has, I think the exhibitions tell me more about his role on the team than his level of performance. We know he can play starter-ish minutes on a really good team in a good conference and be a net positive for his team. I think there was chatter in various interviews about him taking a bigger role and being more aggressive with his scoring, so the exhibition is a point of evidence against that.
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I knew Hall was going to struggle the moment the exhibition was booked I was like āOh Tyler Tanner and Duke Miles are going to lock up our guardsā (shout out Malik Thomas and Jacari). Its why I thought we were going to lose to Vandy in a blowout; I had @Cuts_from_The_Corner breakdown of Hall struggling vs Alabama in the back of my mind (and its why Im actually even more hyped for the season after us looking much better than I expected from the getgo with a lot of room for improvement that will come with the team gelling).
I also do wonder how much of Hallās struggles (in one exhibition game mind you) come from Odom taking a decentralized approach to the offense. Its reminds me of last year VCU where they also didnāt really run the ball through one pure pg or one person, which has its pros and cons. The complete opposite of the floor general dominated game under Tony Bennett and might be an adjustment for a pass first pg under Hall.
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Sure, we know that and we also know that he lost his starting role last year and that BYU didnāt seem to prioritize keeping him around after the season.
None of which is damning, but doesnāt it undercut your certainty of what he will be?
Being less good than Rob Wright 3 doesnāt mean Hall is bad. But it might mean heās ājust fineā
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But that could also be Dallin saying āIāve done the watch the freshman superstar dominate the ball thing already, Iām good,ā right? Also, I donāt recall the timeline of when he entered the portal and when they got Wright III. (Side note: Wright III is not obviously better than Hall in my view)
I guess to be more precise, the exhibition doesnāt change my opinion of his floor (average-to-above average power conference starter) but it also doesnāt provide much to make me think heās more than that.
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It shouldnāt undercut it at all, because it doesnāt contradict any of what was stated? He lost the starter role, but still played heavy minutes on a good team and was a positive contributor. We donāt particularly know how hard BYU tried to keep him around, but using that same logic we should probably start knocking Duke Miles down
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I think ultimately itās very telling that the criticism of Hall is based on an untelevised scrimmage! Because the other data is pretty compelling that he actually is pretty good!
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If pretty good is in the midpoint of fine and good, then I think we are on the same page.
Thereās only one poster whoās pounding the Duke Miles drum. I was and remain fairly indifferent between the two, hoops-wise. Iām a slight lean to Hall because he does have more direct experience in P4/5 and he seems like a better leader . Miles seems like the kind of guy whoād get fired up to beat a team in an exhibition who he perceived (blah blah blah).
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I think thereās a decent chance that Dallin Hall is a better fit at PG to build a roster around in the portal at a time when we only had Sam and Jacari locked down and that Duke Miles is a better fit for where this roster ended up.
Itās a bummer if that turns out to be true; but Iām also not going to be wringing my hands around that because youāre not turning your nose up at another quality commitment at that point, which Hall absolutely is, and Miles opted to leave. What if Thomas hadnāt been eligible? Youād really want both of those guys - and if Miles had opted to stay, I bet heād have ended up with a big role. So, perhaps it looks unfortunate if he goes on to have a big year; but turning down Dallin Hall for the purpose of ensuring Miles stays on the roster when we have no concrete line of sight into a lot of our primary scoring pieces that would follow doesnāt seem like the correct strategy.
ā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦.
I will be watching PG most closely on Friday (along with Sam Lewis), but mostly because I want to get a sense of where things are with my own eyes. I donāt think itās likely, at all, that Hall just isnāt very good anymore and is overmatched at this level. He did shrink against some of his most athletic competition; but he also had some really impressive games against very talented teams and very good defenses (ISU is a great example).
I think itās more likely that heās trying to figure out how to play in this system with these teammates. Heās been most successful as a more ball dominant PG who runs the offense and creates for others. Here, thereās opportunity for that, but heās just as likely to be off ball with Thomas and White initiating. I imagine heās sorting through that a little bit.
He did play alongside Demin some last season, and it was actually his third most efficient teammate pairing on the team - but he also tended to run the offense more in those situations. I imagine this scrimmage isnāt where Odom was trying to solve for this specifically; but I do imagine there will have to be some tinkering to figure out how to get the most out of Dallinās game on the offensive end. But, I think itās likely we end up in a good spot there, especially as he and Thomas and White build chemistry.
Perimeter defense is probably the biggest concern across the team - but I think thatās collective, not just Dallin, and from whatās out there in that short clip from the scrimmage, it looked a lot more like mistakes, confusion around rotations and where they needed to be, etc. Iāll go on record and say that I donāt think Mallory is going to be the solution on this side in most cases (maybe against someone like Markus Burton). Itās not something that will be solved, IMO, by playing Dallin less (unless we get away from one of the two labeled PGs and play positionless guards more often); itās something where more reps and being able to play without thinking as much should help everyone.
How everything kind of best comes together around White and Thomas from a guard perspective does feel like the key preseason point of interest for the team, though.
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Didnāt escape me that one of the Vandy offensive possessions was someone posting Chance and scoring. (By memory)
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Sounds like more pt for Chance!!
1 Like
There were a couple of clips in just that short video of them just kind of shooting over him comfortablyā¦ and literally the first two clips of that video are Hall contesting a shot off of a drive and forcing a miss.
Hahaā¦ as you wrote this - Iām actively trying to caution that this likely isnāt going to be the one-to-one complete game upgrade people are hoping for when they see his scoring/love rooting for him.
I do think Chance will play more than Iād imagined when I wrote my preseason piece, though - but thatās more because Eliās role is more ambiguous than Iād hoped; not because of Dallin. Itāll be interesting to see if on Friday they have a similar rotation re: deep bench minutes or if anyone like Eli or Carrere get more run than they did in Nashville.
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Even those who were present should submit to a vision test before giving testimony. Iāve sat closer to the action at an NFL game. Granted it was in Jacksonville so it probably shouldnāt count.
That facility, designed as a multi-purpose event center, is whack for hoops. Three Rivers, gone. The Vet, gone. And Vandyās still upgrading that building decades after everyone else came to their senses.
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If weāre talking great fits for where the roster ended up- Tayton Conerway would have been an awesome fit for this roster. Good perimeter defender and reasonably solid ball handler. Would love to have his defense starting right now! If we knew weād have Malik and Jacari who could handle some point duties he would have been an awesome fit.
But alas
Will definitely be monitoring the PG situation closely if Iām able to watch from my flight (unlikely). Will also be closely watching Grunlohs defense for what exactly the cause of the fouling is. Is it an inherent slowness or something or just a little bit of slowness to adjust?
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I think Chance is the starter by January
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