So… yes, I think they could and it could be effective depending on matchups. Grünloh can run and shoot it and having that kind of length on the floor could be oppressive at times as long as the opposing PF didn’t put too much strain on him off the bounce.
I bet we’ll see it in some matchups when the other team is huge or just to throw in a wrinkle. Odom is too creative not to try it, IMO.
My pause and why I don’t think we’ll see it often is less to do with Grünloh’s ability to play the position and more to do with roster construction. We really only have two guys who I’d want to see on the floor at Center in a scheme the requires a ton of running for a big and one that often relies on those shot blockers to drop and protect the rim. Playing both any significant amount of time together strains your ability to keep them fresh and out of foul trouble.
They also didn’t construct the roster like that’s in their plans much - given ostensibly what they spent on Tillis and then still went out to throw a bag at De Ridder.
I agree. Also I don’t think we’ve really seen Odom play his center options together for significant minutes at past stops; he tends to stagger them almost completely.
Also, this is literal first practice, so who knows what each guy will be asked to do on offense, but Tillis is running a little pick and roll as the ball handler in the practice clip.
I just don’t see the value in Grünloh playing the 4. If he’s the 4, that means Ugo is the 5. Johann is a great player but he’s not some dynamic scorer that’s going to regularly drop 25 in a game. That combo on the frontcourt seems like one that would be offensively challenged. When you have the guards that we do plus guys like De Ridder and Tillis, I don’t think that’s a good sacrifice even if those guys are elite rim protectors.
I agree it should be a more niche use if they did it (there are probably some times it does make sense against some really big teams and you could probably easily stash Grünloh in the corner as a spot up option on offense without causing much of an issue if you wanted to).
Might be a nice option to have if we need two bigs on defense or to try and exploit a smaller team a bit. But I doubt we use it much. I was more intrigued by it when I was worried about TDR.
It’s not terrible, but pretty meh. Plus, I think Tillis mostly covered Yax but Yax mostly covered the Center. So can’t blame Tillis for the defensive rebounds. And Yax only got 2 ORs.
Second, I’m not sure what statements you’re thinking of, but just speaking personally, my praise of Tillis covering Yax was very much in context of where my expectations were: pretty low, given the height and athleticism deficits.
Yep - he’s next. Have to wrap cutting the Chattanooga game and then write - probably early next week.
And @haney (because this is an edit) - the spoiler for the case re: UAB and Yax is that UC Irvine didn’t defend him with just Tillis. They made their game plan slowing Yax down by primarily guarding with Tillis but sending aggressive help from Leuchten or Evans whenever Yax got near the paint - which is what allowed Coleman to go 10 points over his average (and Yax was still only 4 points under his average anyway). Also, throughout the game, whenever Tillis was the last line of defense whether it be in transition, or on a slipped screen, or after a rebound, etc. etc. it was almost always a far too easy bucket. It was a pretty rough showing altogether, IMO - but I’ll be able to get into it more on the site write up.
I think you’re wrong here. The only thing Tillis provides is age/experience and 3-pt shooting. We already have that in our guards. If Tillis gets bullied in the paint (which he will be), he has to provide value over the others in rotation. If Barksdale proves to be tougher and more physical (and can adapt to college ball), there is a real possibility he proves to be the better option than Tillis, especially if we’re already strong in 3-pt shooting.
You can never have too much three point shooting across your roster and Odom likes to have a min four guys on the floor who thrive at it.
Saying that’s the only thing Tillis does better is underselling its import.
Tillis is also an excellent passer - very good.
He’s savvy and has a great sense of game flow on the offensive end.
De Ridder is going to be there if you need defense. And Onyenso and Grünloh should be very good defensive supports for Tillis anyway.
I think you’re going to be disappointed if you’re expecting to see much Barkesdale this season. Again, I’d probably expect Carrere after having a full season under Odom already and being a good shooter himself to be ahead on the depth chart.
Hoping you’re right. Tillis is mature who has played on winning teams. I don’t disagree with what you’ve said. My counter is that if you’re looking for “passing skills” in the 4, what are you lacking in the 1-3 positions? I see him as a weapon in niche situations, but I see him as liability in most matchups. He doesn’t provide anything that we couldn’t get from our guards. He could come in to shoot the 3 and be trusted not to make stupid plays, but if you need people to handle the physicality of P5 play at the 4 position, he’s not it.
Just keep in mind that in Odom’s offense the Center is either primarily a screener or hangs out under the hoop for a post up or to grab an offensive rebound and then the other four guys do all of the things - primarily to identify and attack mismatches. Tillis might sit in the corner as a spot up and he might be a dual screener running pick and pops - but if they like his matchup he’s just as likely to be handling the ball in a pick and roll to attack a PF who isn’t as used to defending a ball screen, or running off of screens away from the ball himself to get an open look from outside.
It’s not really a situation where just the three guards do guard things and then the 4-5 do forward things. It’s the Center does Center things and everyone else does everything else.
Now, on the defensive end it is a different story for sure - but we’re not going to be playing a defensive 4 over players who can do all of those offensive things - especially with Onyenso and Grünloh playing the safety net.
So, for sure, De Ridder’s ostensible defensive edge (and likely offensive capabilities too) make me really want him to get a lion’s share of minutes - but that’s because he’s also a very capable offensive player with an outside shot who should be a better finisher and slasher.
But putting a completely unpolished offensive player without range in there is not going to be the priority in this system, I don’t believe. Their goal with Barksdale is probably going to be to have him redshirt this year and to develop his range and that side of his game, I would expect - similar to what they did with Carrere last year (but more on the strength/defensive side for him).
Wasn’t there talk about adopting a football-like rule, where you could play token number of games/minutes early in the year before shutting it down as your redshirt?
Yes, there was talk of that. Feels like it’s one of many potential reforms in the next year or two, as NCAA starts to live with House.
If they go to 5 years of eligibility, blanket, there’s not much need. If they stay at 4, I bet there’s momentum for it.
As for Barksdale, I think it’s 60-40 that Odom does it, and developing bigs is still the category where it makes the most sense. But in general, I’m still not a huge fan of it.
Barksdale makes sense to me because I think his ideal “position” when he’s rotation-quality is more forward than center, and that’s a little different than what he was doing in HS. 3rd string center is not really a role that Odom’s rotations have much need for, but I think that’s what he’d be limited to until he gets a developmental year under his belt.
I don’t think it matters for his development whether that happens with a redshirt on or not, but I could see the player finding it more appealing to have 4 seasons of chances at real rotation minutes rather than 3.
