I would be floored if CTE and staff (and admin) knew anything about this prior to the arrest and did nothing.
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A tiny bit more detail from the Cavalier Daily
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Generally agree, but itās still absolutely incumbent on CTE to be fully transparent about what he knew and when. Best thing he can do is release a full statement about it with precision and clarity.
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Iām trying to think of analogous situations and the best I can do are Sulaimon and Terrence Shannon Jr
Sulaimon was dismissed just based on a Duke psychologist being aware of the accusation. (But publicly, it was just violating team policy)
TSJ (by memory) was arrested and then suspended and then (is this correct?) sued to be able to play, and won. And subsequently found not guilty.
These things canāt be easy for an athletic department to deal with, especially before an arrest is made (and unless, like in the Sulaimon situation, there is official knowedge within the school)
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If any lessons were learned from cases at other schools, hopefully UVA put procedures in place that would screen the football coaches and staff from involvement in anything like this. The police would notify a designated person at the school about an investigation, maybe a Title IX coordinator, but the football coaches would only be told on a need to know basis. That avoids a situation where the coaches do stupid stuff like try to cover up evidence (Baylor) or contact the victim (James Franklin at Vandy). And, cynically speaking, provides plausible deniability to the coaches when asked about the situation.
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What are the legal constraints on disciplining a player who is merely under investigation (and thus may, legally, not have done anything at all)? Are there any?
The only way through something like this is to follow policy and procedure to the letter, but I donāt know what that policy is or should be, prior to an actual arrest and indictment. (Nice to see that once the arrest was made, UVA acted swiftly and decisively.)
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Tu says he was aware of allegations in October. He at least has a post on January 19 alluding to it which is now clear given the arrest.
To Haneyās point, there are legal considerations and policies/procedures that influence how handled. We wonāt know the full story until it all comes out but still give coaching staff the benefit of the doubt until we hear otherwise. Either way though it will cast some shadow - coaching staff knew (and followed some institutional procedure) or staff didnāt know (but somehow were very involved with this athlete academically).
If staff knew and didnāt follow procedure then they would be fired.
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I donāt believe that Tu knew anything in October. Iām very confident that TE and the University were made aware very recently. Itās also possible that Edrine was unaware of any investigation into him until recently.
Even if our staff and AD followed our stated procedures, if they knew he was under investigation for this and still let him play then there is going to be a massive outcry, especially from students and faculty. Maybe not Duke lax level, but Iād guess it could lead to resignations whether thatās fair or not.
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It would be absolutely fair to fire anyone who let him play knowing these allegations.
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I am far from Elliottās biggest fan on this board, but I place the odds of him having known about this and letting Edrine play in the sub-1% realm.
There are a lot of things you can say about the guy, but heās been nothing but an upstanding person since he stepped foot in Charlottesville. It would be a major defection from absolutely everything we have have seen from him and Clemson seems to have a pretty lofty code of conduct for their team as well. He has more than earned the benefit of the doubt on this.
Now what I would believe is that someone from the athletic department or admin withheld this information from Elliott and the staff, and that should probably be investigated. How the staff *wouldnāt* know about this if it happened in August and the investigation has been ongoing is a massive question.
Not to trivialize this matter at all which is obviously very upsettingā
but on the football side- are we basically just a WR down now? No additional portal period and everyone found their landing spots already?
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I disagree. Thatās rushing to judgment and really unfair to the accused. You canāt punish someone based on mere allegations or just because theyāre a subject of an investigation. A court ruled that Illinois couldnāt suspend Terrance Shannon even after he was charged. A court just ruled that the Miami Heat still have to pay Terry Rozier even though heās under indictment.
I honestly donāt know what a good policy would be that both protects the rights of the accused and is respectful and conveys a message of belief to the victim.
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I forget the specifics of what/how that court ruled, but a court canāt prevent a coach from having whatever idiosyncratic PT tendencies they want. A coach can decide he wonāt play a guy he knows has been accused of rape. A coach can decide he wonāt play a guy who delivered a murder weapon to the scene of a crime. A coach can decide he wonāt play a guy who commits two fouls in the first half.
Iām guessing Underwood and/or the Illini AD was hiding behind something procedural.
I have mixed feelings on this stuff. I generally agree with what I think @dave92 said above: best thing is to have a formal procedure that has been vetted and strictly followed once thereās actual or constructive notice (sorry for legalese).
But also, coaches and ADs are allowed wide latitude to enforce discipline within their teams over and above laws, regs, and university procedures.
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Probably some additional legal considerations about the money (livelihood) he is being paid too.
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Ah, yes, the Duke lacrosse case. A situation that everyone agrees was handled with care and responsibility and there were no negative repercussions at all whatsoever.
I donāt disagree with your view at all. Iām just saying to be prepared for a very loud reaction from students and faculty if we knew about the investigation and let him play. Just look at the reaction to the rolling stone article
Yup, reading about the TSJ situation, NIL $$ was cited by the judge as one of the āirreparable harms.ā
Also seems like the judge basically cited lack of procedural due process in the official decision to suspend TSJ (in overturning it). You can understand why universities kind of throw their hands up with this stuffā¦
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You keep on bringing up incidents and situations that show why a measured response is appropriate.
Iām not trying to diminish the severity of the allegations against Edrine, but UVa shouldnāt rush to take action against the football program or athletics department until we know more information.
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Keeping him on the team during the season while the process played out can probably be debated by reasonable people, but announcing his return (implying a new NIL deal?) and gushing about him at a press conference the day before his arrest are pretty egregious if the staff knew.
I agree 100%. But students and faculty rush to judgement all the time and the University has caved to their demands in the past so Iām just hoping nothing remotely similar occurs related to this
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