lot of this seems like monday morning qbing. You had an elite pg that was silently committed and you had the entire summer to find a new point guard if that didn’t work out. Not sure why you’d risk angering silently committed pg to offer a sub 100 ranked pg just in case LJ decided to go in a different direction. If this had occurred in July and CTB was still all in, I’d get the gripe.
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OK, so first off, none of us has all the facts, so I’ll readily admit there could be “factors” that render my take invalid.
But the point you make here, doesn’t really weaken mine. This is not a question of character to me. I’m not saying funny story guy is a bad guy. I don’t care. But if you’re recruiting a high level player, the possibility will always exist that the g league or Kentucky comes in late with a bag and the kid can’t pass up what he sees as a superior offer. The blunder wasn’t in missing out on him. Shit happens. It was in being (to my judgement) totally unprepared to recover.
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With high school kids, sometimes the writing on the wall is chiseled in stone. Sometimes, it is more ephemeral than that on a dry-erase board. Given the limited amount of contact available to recruiters, this is something I don’t think we should second guess. That said, I think, over time, warning flags become apparent (as they eventually did with Johnson). (I also think that the staff becomes aware sooner than the folks on message boards.) Then, posters want to know why a particularly talented prospect isn’t being more aggressively pursued. I’m glad I’m not a recruiter.
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I agree with this statement. As a sales guy who sells large scale IT equipment to international customers… there is always so much going on behind the scenes on the customer side, distribution side, OEM side and prime contractor side that trying to piece together exactly what is going on is an exercise in futility.
Declaring failures off of what you read on message boards is ridiculous. No way all the information is out there for anyone on here to have an abject opinion. I tend to remain on the positive side of most recruitments. You could say I have a bit of accismus, but I would really just call it optimism that CTB knows what he is doing… or possibly just knowing I don’t know what is actually going on and giving the coach staff the benefit of the doubt.
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It’s not ridiculous. It’s the generally accepted form of torture we all perpetrate on each other called message boarding.
You shouldn’t have lost that big deal
Yeah, I had to look it up
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I broadly agree with this, but do think it can be taken too far. We don’t have all the info, so we can’t know about mitigating circumstances. At the same time, I don’t think it’s right to say “Well, since we aren’t there in the room, we can’t judge the staff’s performance at all. We should just assume they are fantastic at every aspect of their jobs and that they never make a mistake.” That doesn’t make sense in any field either.
At the end of the day, while we may not know all the details about the process, we have to be able to at least partially judge performance by the end result. I personally think it’s still too early to judge this class because there are still a bunch of moving pieces that could make this recruiting cycle a home run. But it could also end up more like a bunch of the classes we saw from 2017 to 2021. But I do think it’s fair to look at the results and posit some form of opinion, while acknowledging limited info means any of us could be wrong for any number of reasons.
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Had the PG alternatives even revealed themselves at that point? I don’t recall the exact timeline but of Chatman, Dilione, Elmarko, and Green, I thought only Chatman was considered worthy of an early offer? Didn’t the other guys show out in AAU later? And if the answer is to offer a bunch of guys just to not fall behind in a race, you have to wonder if we would have gotten McKneeley, Traudt, Buchanan, hopefully Power and other guys who were impressed by being the primary recruit at their position.
As for not being prepared for a kid to take the money and run, isn’t it fair to say we weren’t suitably prepared (with quality replacements) for Dre, Ty, and Kyle to do that?
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Look, like I said, I’m not trying to bash the staff or be overly negative here. But two things seem pretty apparent: 1) we clearly wanted to get a PG in this class 2) we are perilously close to failing in that objective. If 2 becomes a reality, why is it not fair to say the staff bungled the process at that spot? I’m not saying it’s the end of the world but at the end of the day it is the result that counts, whether the staff was blind sided by the funny story or not.
I didn’t say we should’ve offered a bunch of dudes. I said we should have been prepared better. I mean if the 4 or whatever PGs we have pursued this cycle are the only players in the country that we could possibly have lived with, then it is what it is I guess and I retract my take. But the super limited offer approach has not been a raging success overall. 22 was great. 21 was not. 23 is TBD but at this stage that in and of itself is not great. And I think the fact you see more offers in 24 is an admission of that fact.
Yes absolutely.
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There are a variety of ways to describe that recruitment, but bungles implies the staff messed up in a way that most others would not have. I don’t think any of us has clarity on what was said among the staff and LJ to know whether there were clues. It’s possible that it really was out of the blue and even to LJ that he had another option. Nevertheless, it’s in the staff to figure it out from here.
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I was addressing several comments, not just yours. We have made hay in focusing in on a primary recruit in a number of circumstances. Also, there are fair number of critics here that we settle too early on lesser recruits rather than top talent. In this PG recruitment, we started with Caleb Foster, then focused on LJ, and then moved on to Spring finds (where HGN says we have found some gems). We are where we are, but it wasn’t for lack of trying with the top guys and then some others. Recruiting is a tough gig with imperfect information. And we’re not done yet. Have to be thrilled with last year’s haul and this year’s continuing prospects.
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If you gave me a choice of continuing with current guys or getting a sure commitment from Ty Davis, I’d go for Door #2 100 times out of 100. That dude is the most Ty Jerome guy I’ve ever seen that wasn’t Ty Jerome.
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I have rarely seen this criticism of TB. The one I’ve always seen is the opposite. That he’s too selective early in a cycle so then he has to settle late because there aren’t any good options left on the board. If he wasn’t so picky early he would get a better player than the scraps he ends up getting when he misses on his top guys.
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Oh, it’s a message board so there’s definitely all kinds of takes out there. But there’s plenty of - we’ve won a natty why aren’t we pulling in (or at least competing for) top talent like UNC, Michigan, Nova, etc. Personally, I think Bennet is working through his talent evaluation like he always has and looking for the right fit for his program. I imagine he has no idea whether a guy is a Top 25 recruit or a #200 recruit and it wouldn’t factor into his approach. Buchanan started real low, Caleb Foster started real high.
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Don’t overcomplicate things. We wanted a PG. this year. we aren’t getting one mostly likely.
If he’s so good, why would he come to UVA? And also why haven’t we offered him yet if he’s better than the remaining 23 possibles?
I suppose I could have said bungles implies that you’re salty because TB didn’t go get you a PG. I’d like to have one sewn up too but I’m pretty happy with the staff’s efforts.
I don’t know why some offers are out and not others, but HGN said not to read much into it. But shoot, we’re still waiting on ‘23 guys to decide. Personally, I’d tell Ty Davis we’ve got a bunch of $$$ sports cars in the garage and need someone to come to Charlottesville to drive them around (that’s figurative, not literal).
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And 5 foot 6!!! We will finally have some height at point guard
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Several points on London. I think there’s legitimate room for criticism but a lot of what I hear from fans is built around narratives that are somewhat off base.
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His recruitment was over and shut down since October. All the lists and talk of schools recruiting him after that was a show. The coaches as always told him he needed to announce before the April live period. Which if you’ll remember he was originally set to do.
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The bad break, or good for him I guess, came when he was invited to the World Hoop Summit in April, concluding with the game which took place during that April live period. At some point leading up to that he had talks with the G-League about evaluating him there…That led to delay, and eventual offer.
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A well-known scouting service in Georgia that most coaches subscribe to said all along that London would turn pro. So there were warning signs that he was actively searching for the opportunity he received.
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It would not have mattered if he announced last Fall. He still would have wound up signing with the G-League.
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I think it’s fair to criticize the coaches for not being more proactive looking for PGs during the April live periods. But remember this happened in the middle of all that. And they put a lot of preparation into how to spend that very limited time, it’s hard to adjust last minute.
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I read something earlier on the Stepien that said even though he played poorly in the actual game, apparently he played very well in the practices. (If we had known about that, I had forgotten). Good luck to him in the G-league. Still surprised they’ll be paying him 1 mn per year.
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I think from his point of view being able to play and obviously get paid in the G-League this year is a big part of it. I know he tried to see what might be available at UVA through NIL after the offer came, and I suspect he tried other schools too. But his value to a college next year is basically nothing. College coaches have to worry about winning, the Ignite don’t. haha
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It’s always easy to find fault in hindsight but a lot tougher to make the right call when you’re in the middle of it and don’t have the benefit of knowing how things are going to turn out.
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How does the G League work as a business? If they’re paying out salaries like that, they must have significant income. Are there enough fans to generate a lot of ticket revenue? Advertising? Do NBA teams pay them in some way or cover expenses?
Think the NBA just takes a loss on it like they do with the WNBA. Think the logic is it saves them time and money on flying scouts to Australia and other places (although might not save as much as the G League Ignite program costs).
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