The horror! Star Wars child actor who just couldnt cope.
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Here is the clip (60 seconds) for the play i did not give a penalty kick onā¦ i know it is hard to see, but what do you all thinkā¦ did i get the call correct? My instant reaction when it happened was both players were shoulder to shoulder and player came from the left and poked the ball forward. Iām sure if there was proper VAR, i could have been wrong, but in HS we just have to make a decision.
Funny things to watch forā¦ when i give the red card some of the red team start dancing and the fathers along the fence start waving at the player who gets the red card.
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Obviously really hard to tell from angle and lighting, etcā¦ and you were there.
Since you ask, though, the one thing that would make me wonder is that from the clip, it looks as if the defender swings his legs up and into the legs of the attacker as they go down. Shoulder to shoulder poke away even with contact in the box, Iām with you, no PK. The swinging of the legs up and away from the ground (which is not 100% clear from the video, but looks like it could have happened), then as a disinterested and only mildly informed observer, seems like it should be a kick.
But again, you were there and I wasnāt. Since the teammate got so shitty about it that you had to card him means the little effers deserved it regardless.
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This is the piece in real time I could not discern fast enoughā¦ I quickly processed it as a poke-away and shoulder to shoulderā¦ but on the video it couldāve totally been a trip. Unfortunately, we do not have VAR at the VHSL level, so I just went with what I processed at the time. I am pretty certain that in the same real time view again I wouldnāt have called it as I believe him and the player on the right of him shoulder to shoulder had already started their fall.
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i responded to this in an off-topic thread because this is geeky stuffā¦ but Discourse automatically reset the emoji types on the most recent updateā¦ but I can change them back to any of the following:
For reference it was auto-changed to Apple/Internationalā¦
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I moved it back to Google Classic. FYI.
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Thatās a lot of different emoji types.
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Yeah, like I said, you were there, and real-time is very different from my three run throughs (of a crappy video clip), and itās just one of those things. Iām sure if I was a white team parent, I would have seen the leg scissor and thought obvious PK, and if I was a red team parent, I would have thought it happened after, and unless you were really lucky on your AR, you have to go with what you see (and, I assume, tend to veer away from the PK decision unless itās really obvious, since the potential harm is so much greater if wrong).
I did always try to be very conscious of my own bias even as a fan, and as I think I said elsewhere, took a lot of shit from my fellow team parents because I didnāt think every time our kids went down on a hard shoulder to shoulder it was a foul, etcā¦ but I know that even with that, bias creeps in.
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Yeahā¦ two things with the ARā¦
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It was on the far side of the 18 from his line with a LOT of traffic in the box. Not his faultā¦ but probably didnt see much.
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This is his first season as a refereeā¦ so super raw and not as confident on his calls as a more experienced AR. Also not his faultā¦ Iāve been there.
I did talk to him and he told me he didnt see anything that would lead him to calling a PK.
I want to talk through this for a bit. I know this is the common wisdom because if the attacking team should have received a PK, but didnāt, at worst theyāre in the same position as before while if the defending team didnāt commit a foul but got called for one, the other team gets a PK.
I donāt have the benefit of a win probability algorithm or an xG calculator handy so I donāt know if I can do this.
But conceptually, wouldnāt an incorrect no call affect win probability as much as an incorrect made call?
Yeah, I wasnāt trying to denigrate your AR ā meant more āgot lucky because he/she was on the same side of the field as the foul and had a clear enough view and enough confidence in his/her judgment that he/she was confident in telling you āPK all the wayā ā so really lucky on the ARā
I am absolutely not speaking from a position of knowledge, or for jazz here, but in my experience referees hold 18 yard calls to a āhigherā (or at least ādifferentā) standard. Since the chance of making a PK is so much higher than run of play, then it needs to be really clear and obvious that it was a foul and significant enough that the attackerās chance to score in the absence of the foul would be really high ā since PK chances are really high.
Add to that a distinct tendency by attackers to embellish penalties in the 18, and many refs will swallow the whistle on borderline stuff inside the 18 that they might call in the general run of play. And defenders know that, and push the limit, and attackers know that, and embellish, so itās a tough call for any ref.
So youāre not wrong in the sense that an incorrect no call could affect the scoring chance just as much as an incorrect call, but the threshold is higher to make the call given the relatively high success rate of PKs.
I donāt know how they teach it at the licensing courses (never got beyond āEā level), but thatās a rough approximation of what Iāve been told and my observations seem to bear it out.
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So Iāve been through referee certification in two countriesā¦ and this is brought up because rules of competition (ROC) are slightly different between the two of them. ROC is different between every major governing boardā¦ nothing that strays away from the IFAB, but some interpretations of the IFAB that make it slightly different.
My best case in pointā¦ illegal throw-in.
Germany - I was taught to call any throw-in illegal if the ball has not been released by the apex of the head. No spike throws into the ground or light released throws after passing by the apex.
United States - If the ball has traveled over the headā¦ fair game when you release it. Foul throws are only called if the ball does not originate from behind the head or travels to the side of the head.
The IFAB is ambiguous enough that both are proper interpretations of this rule.
For the PK decisions in both countriesā¦ we are not taught to discern them any different, however we are told to always watch for simulation (pretending to be fouled), embellishment (hands thrown in the air, anguished noises) & primacy of possession (who holds the prime position on the ball) for all fouls. All three are exaggerated within the 18 like @TheGrinch mentionsā¦ so it makes calls harder to make.
In Germany, we were always told that if the player was already going down or if the player was deemed going down on his own before any infraction no foul. So in the boxā¦ no PK.
In the US, we are told primacy of possession is key. If player has primacy of possession and there is an infraction, it is a foul. If there is no primacy of possession and there is a 50/50 situation, then no foul. So in the boxā¦ no PK.
IFAB just mentions if an infraction is committed in the box, a PK is givenā¦ so there is some ambiguity in that as well.
I think in both considerations above, I would still not give the PK.
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If that play had happened 25 yards out, youād probably call it. Would have been a last defender type scenario but donāt think it would have warranted a yellow.
Looked incidental though either way and normal contact. Also looked like attacking player had run out of gas and touches - didnāt seem like a goal scoring opportunity and seemed like he invited the contact or at least his momentum carried it to look worse than it was.
For a game that is illegal to use your hands they have no right to decide how one can throw the ball in if you ask me. Chest passes should also be allowed. Rule should be two hands on ball for throw in
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These are legalā¦ where did you see chest passes are illegal?
I said should be
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Like I say bounce passes should be legal in basketball eh? 
Hey Fresh! Look what I found for sale!
You, Havs, Big Red, Stith and Crotty!
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Our guy @Spencer has worn the Honor of Honors or whatever we say.. Congrats nephew! And all the graduates of 25
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