I donāt think UVA is close to tier 2 anymore. It was TB that was pretty much Tier 1/2. With him gone weāre only as good as our next coach. Letās pray we hit the mark!
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I might put uva into a Tier 2 for job desirability, but Iād struggle to put us in a second tier for total program reputation/history.
Nova has to be tier 1 @BDragon. 3 titles. 7 FFs. E8 appearances in every decade since the 60s except the 90s when they were still making the tournament most years. I mean thatās a solid history.
Ours isnāt close to that. I could maybe be talked into us being on the tier 2/3 bubble, but thereās a bunch of schools with more titles/FFs that Iām gonna have to slot into tier 2 above uva. Like mich state, Florida, lville etc. depends on how big you think tier 2 should be. If itās 5-6 schools, then weāre tier 3. If itās 10 schools, maybe we are low end tier 2.
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UVA isnāt a blue blood.
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I donāt think weāre tier 2. MSU, Michigan, definitely Florida, maybe Arizona in tier two ahead of us
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IU hoops for me is what Tennessee football is. Just takes the right guy, and yes that includes someone who can deal with pychos. UTK had a coach hired and unhired in like 48 hours and now theyāre back in contention hahaha
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I say yes but I also spread tier 2 to be generally pretty large. I have uva as a top 25 program and honestly IMO closer to a top 15 job right now.
I think if Golden did what heās accused of, thatās really just an unknowable skeleton for a program. Itās one thing to do due diligence and find out if a guy had a DUI or 2 waived off by friendly hometown cops, itās another to figure out a guy is secretly stalking young college women using social media and DMs.
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The thing is, you could say the same thing for a lot of programs that I wouldnāt consider for BB status, including UVA.
The thing about blue bloods is that there is some quality about the schools that attracts good players and good coaches such that theyāre almost always relevant and never down for very long. This isnāt the case with Indiana, though I do agree that youād think the makings should be there.
The blue bloods are:
Kansas
Duke
Kentucky
UNC
UConn
Villanova
UCLA (just have to give them their due for 11 titles)
Set ucla aside for a minute. The other six schools have won 17 of the last 25 ncaa tournaments. Each has at least 2 wins in that span, except Kentucky which won 2 of 3 years before my randomly chosen 1999 cutoff date. Thatās pretty sick. Thatās sustained excellence.
Of those schools, only nova is down right now. Weāll see if they get it turned around with a new coach. I do think from a strictly raw materials standpoint nova is on the bottom of the blue blood tier.
I guess UNC is kinda down right now but not really.
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If we are Tier 2 (maybe) I think you would have to add NC State and Maryland (gross) as schools with Tier 2 type history - multiple final fours, titles, and multiple iconic coaches over a 20+ year period and with passionate fan bases.
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I think a program has to have sustained nationally relevant success over multiple coaches. Norlander/CBS did a write-up a few years ago that defined some I think reasonable criteria. Iāll try to find it.
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I think Iād define the tiers like this:
Blue Blood: multiple titles. Multiple multiple final fours. Many elite 8s. A long history of success combined with strong recent success.
Tier 2: will be missing something from the above list. Really solid recently but history is not that long/sustained. Or recent decades have been down vs prior glory days. (Indiana). Or just not consistently relevant (maybe Florida?)
Tier 3: maybe just one title and not enough accumulated tournament success to justify tier 2 (this is where Iād put us). Never won a title (zags). Fallen tier 2 angels (Maryland, Arizona, etc)
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Does that legacy matter as much in the new environment? When billionaire alums are willing to buy players for their alma mater (e.g. BYU), the tradition and history seem less important to the players today. Sure Duke and UK will continue to attract kids who see them as an elevator to the NBA but that is more dependent on recent success of their players not because of a banner from 1995.
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Indiana and ucla are evidence that legacy is not sufficient, in and of itself.
But the fact that the majority of the blue blood schools have a really long legacy also shows that it is an important ingredient.
Our legacy is not sufficiently robust to matter much, imo.
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There are only 4 blue bloods. UNC, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas. No tiers, no levels. Just four. No joining the club. Find the right coach and you can get a temporary pass to their events, but never a lifetime membership.
There were always teams that had similar advantages before āNILāā¦now itās just out in the open, sorta.
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Uconn with national titles under multiple coaches is more impressive
Agree on those 4, but disagree on no new members joining the club. Duke definitely joined the club sometime in the last 40 years and UCLA and Indiana got kicked out of the club during that time too.
I think UConn should definitely be named. National Championships under 3 different coaches. Most championships this century.
Iām ambivalent about UCLA and IU. You can have them in there or not, I wonāt argue with anyone either way.
Tier 2 is probably the Arizonas, Michigan States, Villanovas, etcā¦schools that have won championships and endured success across eras and multiple coaches, but not as many championships as the blue bloods.
Weāre in tier 3 or 4. 1 championship, 3 FFs under 2 coaches. A couple E8s including under a 3rd coach. Hell, we might be in tier 5.
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Agreed and Iām not considering IU a blue blood. Just that they have the resources, fans, history, and facilities to come out and quickly be a bfd year in and year out if they get their guy. IU has the ability to be a dream job that the best coach in America could stay at for a career and not want to jump. I donāt think thatās the case for UVA and a lot of others.
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Fair enough Iāll give you Nova.
I agree on UVa being tier 2 job not a tier 2 blue blood. The history just isnāt there.
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Curious how weād rank the jobs in the ACC. UNC and Duke are clearly 1-2. I think we have a case for 3. Cuse, Louisville, and State are probably in that same tier. Clemson, Miami, Wake, ND, and GT (maybe SMU too given money) probably next. Donāt care about the rest.
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