Itās all kind of noisy though. That overlaps, albeit not perfectly, with starting to play away games against better competition.
We were 11th nationally before exam break using Torvik. Weāve been 217th since. Pre-season stuff removed.
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My point is this: I think we are putting the wrong things as causes of our current issues. Like, if only everything around Rohde and iMac** were perfect, then maybe theyād look like 2nd contract NBA guys? I mean, maybe thatās true. Iām certainly not against trying it!
** which is not to say we have those guys on our bench; thatās a related but separate convoā¦
This is roughly another way of saying our 1-3 guys need to be able to shoot with how much weight shooting is given in the pros these days.
And going back to the original point: it was that you need shooters in those roles so we donāt have to limit who we look for in our 4 guy - because the slow footed stretch shooters weāve had arenāt cutting it (and leading partly to some of the confidence issues @Gna2r is speaking to).
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Fair, Iād say score efficiently in multiple ways (including shooting), but thatās just a quibble
Slow-footed stretch shooter and NBA guy Sam Hauser kind of throws a wrench in this line of thought.
Not saying I disagree with most of what you guys are saying about the types of players needed, but more that itās hard to paint with a broad brush.
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Yeah I mean if you can find an exceptional stretch 4 shooter like that, heās a take every time. (But should be paired with a physical 5).
Point mostly is that those guys donāt come around often. we should give ourselves flexibility with that role rather than get stuck needing to find a good shooter at the 4, who can be serviceable on defense, and pair them with a bruising 5 man. Thatās a lot of chips to have to fall together at once
Also what a lot of people donāt understand is that teams get very comfortable offensively when they know youāre not a threat against them offensively.
Takes all the pressure off each shot when you know a team canāt score more than 60 against you.
Historically speaking ā¦ if Beeks could shoot with those defensive chops, he likely would not have come to UVA. He would have been a lock for 5 star status and headed to the bright lights. Very glad he is with us and driving the bus though. Man, it is a tough tough balancing act for CTB and it has gotten even harder. His challenge is huge compared to that of Duke, UNC, UK, et. al.
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Virginia had 4 guys on last yearās roster that could have been on this yearās roster. Which guy if he had stayed would have made the 2023-24 Hoos the best possible team?
- Shedrick and no Minor
- Caffaro and no Minor
- Traudt and no Groves
- Franklin and no Rohde
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voters
Big, big week for this team according to the latest social media post.
https://x.com/uvamenshoops/status/1744443933021917583?s=46&t=vkjgQUekzGC7z44tIfnIRQ
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āThe beatings will continue until morale improvesā - TB
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Definitely sounds like we are going to go the ācontinue the help defense until it clicksā.
I do think it may eventually click, but will the damage, and further road blowouts, to our NET be too much to overcome by thenā¦ not if it clicks like this Saturday,
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Thank you. This is exactly what Iām saying. Before we can compete for the National Championship we have to get 1. Get to the NCAA tournament, 2. Win a game in the first round atleast, 3. Continue to progress from there. At this point since 2019 we have perennially been at step 1 or 2 in which we have either been in the NIT or havenāt won the first round game.
Said a bit differently- before the Ty Jeromeās, Kyle Guys and DeāAndre Hunter type of impact players that weāve acquired, we had very solid foundational players that laid the groundwork for the talent to be sprinkled on top. Even Joe Harris, Malcom Brogdon, Anthony Gill were second round picks, BUT fantastic for our team. In my mind the talent that has gotten us to the elite 8 and beyond has been at the 1-3 positions, and the toughness/defensive factors have been at the 4-5 positions.
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Yeah, itās interesting. I keep thinking back to Tonyās infamous ādouble downā comments to Eamon Brennan during the offseason. Viewed cynically, it shows a coach who is unwilling to change with the times. Viewed more charitably, it shows a coach who has an understanding of the things that work and is not going to be swayed by temporary setbacks. Obviously, everyone has a different reads on what CTB meant by that comment.
It just strikes me that there is a line in the sand being drawn here on the importance of this week.
Of course, I could just be reading too much into a post the social media team put up.
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We won the ACC with Sam Hausers offense being a factor. This is true. But when he couldnāt score in the first round against BVP we also couldnāt slow them down defensively.
Compared to the 2015/2016 seasons in which we won the ACC *AND got to the Elite 8 and sweet 16ās. One of the main reasons being our defense in the post without having the offense of a Sam Hauser stretch four (Darion, Akil, Anthony Gill, Mike Tobey) Those guys couldnāt or were not allowed to shoot from 3, but they did everything else.
My point: Iād rather us scrap the āscoring from the 4/5 positionā in lieu of defense at the 4 position since itās obviously very important.
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I just have a disconnect here. Are you saying the order at which you get guys is somehow important? Like if we somehow got NBA second contract dudes before we had the right role players, then they just would ā¦ what? Whatās the claim here?
Your last sentence is true ā guards are important! The most important in college hoops. Which is why I wasnāt clear on the original point about our big issue being the type of 4 we are trying to get.
Exactly! A player at the 4/5 position who is a defensive plus, plus can shoot it from perimeter is tough to come by and are likely in the league at this point, OR getting paid alot of NIL at another school. At Uva we donāt even *need that- we just need the defensive player and bruisers at those positions to run our stuff.
ā¦If we had those two players starting on this team, and then a high upside Ryan Dunn coming in as a sub this would allow enough time for him to develop without the pressure of having to hit a 3 every time he plays.
Exactly! And I believe you mean from the Uva perspective when we cause other teams to turn the ball over, only get one shot at the rim when we rebound, or run out the shot clock-and have knowledge that we can do that most of the game. When this happens it has to give us internal confidence that we āonly need to score 10 more pointsā and weāve won the gameā¦
This year we obviously arenāt able to be mentally confident that we can keep a team to a lower number of points, and that causes our confidence to wane a bit.
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Yep I agree with you here. To be fair I consider Beeks to be a longer, more athletic Kihei Clark which is fine! Itās just that they both should have been used in the same role along side a Ty Jerome and Kyle Guy. If you substitute Kihei for Beeks on that National Championship team then they would have had the same impact.
In other words there is a place for a guy like that on our team, but they shouldnāt be in front of guys at the 1-3 spots that can shoot- and there are PLENTY of them that come along every year across the country/world that we should be able to choose from.
EDITED TO ADD: I know someone is going to say "But Ty Jerome and Kyle Guy are NBA caliber players. Okay fine. I would also have Beekman backing up and supporting a London Perrantes and 40% shooting Devon Hall type of player in the same vein of how Kihei supported Ty and Kyle as needed.
Sure thing. Iāll explain because I understand that people think in different sequences even if we arrive at the same conclusion. I was explaining linearly how TB was able to build the program up throughout the years and even adjusting a bit while also getting better talentā¦The *big adjustment was getting a DeāAndre Hunter type of 3/4 guy whom we could move to the 4 spot which did allow us to stretch the defense more and ultimately win the championshipā¦*However DeAndre Hunter was ALSO a DPOY player and that is why he works in that spot because we donāt lose anything when we play him at the 4. Before DeAndre we had Isiah Willkins there- again a foundational piece for that specific position. Before Wilkins it was Atkins or Gill right- again both defensively capable players at that position doing Tony Bennett required Yeomans work.
What TB has done since DeāAndre is go to far in the opposite direction and try to get more shooting/talent at the 4/5 spot: Hauser, Murphy, BVP, Groves, Huff (All post players which he allowed to come out to the perimeter and shoot it). However *none of those players could hold up defensively and as a result the defense has been bad, even if the offense in some of those situations has been good. At Uva we need our defense to be good at all times (even if the media hates our style and wants us to change etc. etc.)
Itās no coincidence that our *best defense was the 2020 team which didnāt have ANY offense including Mamadi, Braxon, Huff, and Papi in the post- yet we were a DANGEROUS team at the end of the season winning 11 of 12 I believe.
So to my point: It would be awesome to have a few 2nd contract players and if we can get them all in one class that would be great, BUT even if we canāt then we can build by getting a Jack Salt, IW to stabilize the interior and then sprinkle in a DeāAndre Hunter like player on top of that- IF we can compete with other teams in getting that player, and if we do then let them develop (Ryan Dunn)
EDITED TO ADD: I neglected to mention that order is *not important, but I figure that itās always much easier to get a Jack Salt, and Darion Atkins like player than trying to compete and being left out in the cold when trying to get a Keels, Power, Konflict, Nate Ament type of talentā¦Yet we still make those guys the priority #1 and then we have to *settle for Priority #4 instead of going all in on a Priority#2 sooner.
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