Virginia vs. Tarleton State, 1900 EST (UTC -5), 2300 GMT (UTC +0), 6 Nov 2023, ACCNX

Ok, this is long and all over the place. Sorry about that. There’s a TL;DR at the end.

I started out disagreeing with this. I mean, I don’t think Elijah will beat out Harris (its possible, but I think its unlikely), but he could 100% beat out Taine for effectively the 9th spot. Which seems like it’d be a heck of a lot better than being 12th, but I’m not sure it is. Or, at a minimum, it doesn’t move the probability distribution enough to make it a good thing.

12th means being JAR in 2021 and getting 35 minutes over the entire season. That’s not bad, its disastrous. Literally wasted a year and anyone but a “genuinely just happy to be here” player like McCorkle is an auto-transfer. If that’s even plausibly on the table then there’s a problem because we shouldn’t be a coin-flip away from disaster with a kid as talented as Elijah.

On the other hand, being 9th means being Caffaro last year, Poindexter the year before, and… Caffaro again the year before that. 125-170 minutes over the season, very roughly 5 minutes/game on average but with a wide variance and lots of DNPs. That’s… fine. But its not great. The reality is CTB very rarely goes 9 deep with his regular rotation and #9 is mostly on the outside looking in.

Where you want to be is 8th. Rarely you’ll get a worst-case scenario like Taine 2 years ago at ~150 minutes, but most of the time 8th means Dunn last year with 300+ minutes or McKoy in '21, which he wasn’t happy with but ~230 minutes is respectable playing time.

Sure, Elijah might hit a home run and make it to 8th by the end of the season, but the more likely best-case scenario is 9th. And falling to 11th behind Taine and Minor because of match-ups or lingering injury issues is at least as likely as getting to 8th

So, if there’s a probability distribution of 10% 8th (good), 60% 9th (disappointing), and 30% 10th or worse (bad to utter disaster), then redshirt looks more reasonable. When your best, reasonable-case scenario is “meh, tolerable” then a redshirt feels awful but isn’t necessarily worse than the realistic level of playing time.

Even the absolute best case scenario, in which he figures out the defense and everything clicks about as conference play begins, and maybe someone else in the backcourt gets hurt, he’d still mostly only be playing in blow-outs. Maybe 20-50 minutes played total going into the holidays, depending on how the games go and then hoping to gradually ramp up into ACC play. Is that really more encouraging than a redshirt?

Sure, it depends on the kid, but now might be the single best time in recent memory for a redshirt to work out well. First, part of the issue of being a redshirt is the feeling of being apart from the rest of the team and isolated. Its rough being alone. On its face, its ridiculous we have three non-medical redshirts, but it also means we’ve got a small community of redshirts. They aren’t alone, they’ve got each other to bond with and who know exactly what they’re going through.

Second, they can watch Bond! Sure, Traudt was a sourpuss and is now gone after redshirting. But Bond also redshirted, has a great attitude, and may be turning into a rockstar before their very eyes.

TL;DR - Sure, redshirting sucks. But it takes utter disaster (JAR-like playing time) off the table, its less crappy when you’ve got people you can complain to who understand, and having a model of the process working well right in front of you should help with long-term concerns. I think its actually ok, or at least less terrible than it initially seems.

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Caught up this morning. Did not love any of the Reece/Dante minutes, which might just be a reflection of not loving any of the Dante minutes. Quick as a cat, but doesn’t seem like a ‘fit’ for what we’re trying to do out there.

Noticed on a number of possessions we’d have Isaac or Rohde bringing the ball up when Reece and/or Dante were available, and unfortunately neither experiment went very well. Slow getting into sets, some bad turnovers right up top, etc. Good time to try things out, but we may need to simplify that going forward (especially since we still don’t gain much with Reece or especially Dante playing off-ball to begin with). Point Rohde not ready for primetime, I don’t think.

Point Dunn was actually more fun, but uh, let’s also reign that in a bit. :grimacing:

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Need to quibble here, beating out Taine would make him 10th, not 9th. Top 9 is clearly set as Dante/Reece/iMac/Rohde/Bond/Dunn/Groves/Minor/Buchanan.

Last ten “10th man” in terms of season minutes played have been the following:

2022-23: Taine Murray (So), 93 minutes, 18 points
2021-22: Igor Milicic (Fr), 100 minutes, 33 points
2020-21: Kadin Shedrick (RS Fr), 86 minutes, 28 points
2019-20: Chase Coleman (Fr), 88 minutes, 12 points
2018-19: Kody Stattmann (Fr), 73 minutes, 30 points
2017-18: Marco Anthony (Fr), 103 minutes, 26 points
2016-17: Jarred Reuter (So), 344 minutes, 121 points
2015-16: Jack Salt (RS Fr), 138 minutes, 36 points
2014-15: Devon Hall (RS Fr), 244 minutes, 42 points
2013-14: Teven Jones (So), 126 minutes, 14 points

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I don’t disagree with your numbers and agree that being 10th is, with rare exceptions, bad. But I don’t think its obvious at all that Minor is 9th instead of 10th. Of course we don’t know anything for sure right now, but Minor was last on the depth chart they put out the other day and was the last scholarship player to go into the game last night, iirc.

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I think that’s more a factor of TS being really small and not a good matchup. Against teams with more traditional bigs I’m pretty sure he will get more consistent run - but behind Buchanan.

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Was I not paying that close attention, or did Minor’s defense seem okay? Seems others had the opposite takeaway. Will have to rewatch

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He had one play I recall where he gave up a basket and I think we tend to remember that instead of the overall output. He looked fine to me otherwise

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Intrigued to see if we stick with same starting lineup vs a big Florida team (6’10 and 7’1 in frontcourt), or more likely, Tony starts Buchanan. If the latter, if he’s a 1:1 sub for Groves or we play Dunn at 3. Lastly, does Bond’s play slide him in for Rohde?

  • Beekman, McKneely, Rohde, Dunn, Groves
  • Beekman, McKneely, Bond, Dunn, Buchanan
  • Beekman, McKneely, Rohde, Dunn, Buchanan
  • Beekman, McKneely, Dunn, Groves, Buchanan
0 voters
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I’m with you, I didn’t watch the game with a super critical lens. But I thought Minor looked fine. I don’t recall it being a large enough sample size to sway me one way or the other with him. I also didn’t have huge expectations going into the season. He always felt like an option to provide match up versatility and protect BB, Groves and Dunn from foul trouble. If he can do that by giving 5-10min a game when appropriate then he’s done his job.

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What do we think of Harris’ handle? Looked borderline loose to me … like borderline pick 6 loose a few times. His game reminds me of a version of that Wake guard last year.

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I kept going back and forth on if I like his play or hate it. I think Harris might present a new option of a change of pace ball handler. He’s got speed and a solid handle and provides a look that no one else does. But he also worries me almost every time he takes off. The unpredictable nature of his play might be a nice shakeup for a team that usually gives fairly set looks.

I think I’m good with it, in spurts and at times, but don’t want to see 20 mins of him a night running the show.

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I remember seeing him in practice last year and agree. He is so quick he sometimes forgets to bring the ball with him when he gets going

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It was Harris’ first game in a while, and he missed the Maryland scrimmage to boot. Could see him pressing a little hard, hopefully he settles in quick.

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To be fair- and it’s not really a criticism towards you, but others on this thread have pointed out that “3-5 minutes per week, with a break glass in case of emergency” isn’t a reason to burn a year of eligibility.

But if that were true, then MANY, MANY other teams would redshirt their players as well, which we are not really seeing and especially top 100 players as Uva is doing.

Anyways I’m in too good of a mood to really complain. I think THIS year we have so many unknown pieces that are going to grow, that it will be exciting. Last year we had alot of KNOWNS, and the only upside- unknowns were Dunn and iMAC.

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True everybody’s got their something. Obviously Red Shirts are a CTB thing, and it’s one of those things I’ve just accepted and move on because I don’t think it’s going to change. I also think when I look at who has red shirted and who has left I can see justifiable reasons for both.

Overall I’m exactly with you I’m so excited about this year because the reset was badly needed. There’s a new air and feeling around the team and I love it. You’re right there’s lots of possibilities and unknowns and I think we will see a very different looking team come March and that’s pretty cool.

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This is 100% true, but its also worth remembering that, in recent years at least, a LOT of players transfer.

Right, I mean, its not like the 10th guy doesn’t play at all.

But if Minor’s best-case scenario is, when match-ups are right, being 2nd big off the bench instead of 3rd, he’s just not going to get that much playing time. And the minimal data we have suggests he’s behind Taine. Maybe that’ll change, we’ll find out a lot more on Friday.

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I am going to reserve judgement on Minor for a few more weeks, but def think we are going to need him…starting Friday. I don’t think Groves (physicality) and BB (inex, likely to give up fouls) are going to be able to guard/keep of the off boards, some of the better bigs we will see. I really think the coaches brought him in thinking he’d be the starting 5, but that clearly hasn’t translated…yet.

For instance, for Friday, if we go Groves/Dunn their offense is going to have to make up for the issue we’ll have on the defensive end/boards.

I hate to say it, but I think we are gonna miss Shed more than we thought we would.

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and Papi!

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Saw that two of Florida’s bigs, the Marshall transfer and a freshman Condon, drained a bunch of 3s in their first game last night.