Hope this doesnāt kill the fun, but hereās Torvik on best teams, efficiency wise, since Jan 1 2013:
Also, not surprisingly, but if you end it right after our natty, we were #1
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A buddy of mine (UNC fan) made this spread sheet (cumulative wins/losses, Conference champs, NCAA births, Final 4, Natty). Doesnāt take into account strength of record, seedings, etc. but an interesting lookā¦
I didnāt check it for accuracy. His boldings were periods where he thought there was a clear winner (you could argue for sure)ā¦ (4, 9, 7 is last 4 years, last 9 years, last 7 years - he stopped having UVA when it was clear we were not competitive over the period (pre-Tony)). UNC also benefits from not missing the tourney during COVID. He also doesnāt seem to care about win % as much (UNC loses a lot more games)
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Catching back up. If we go with the 09/10 season then I have to take UVa off the list. or at least consider it the end of the Leito era plus start of CTB offered nothing if you werenāt a diehard UVa fan. Wisconsin defiantly comes back into the picture.
@haney Iām here for an old school pointless sports debate donāt go bringing your numbers and stats into it. Name the 10 programs no research just your memory.
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Okay, here goes. Sort of off the top of my head, and using @JoeBoxleyās original criteria (starting in 12-13) :
- Nova
- UNC
- Zags
- Hoos
- Kansas
- Kentucky
- Duke
- Michigan
- Michigan St.
- DeāAndre Hunter alone
(off the top of my head, I sort of forgot Baylor, but theyāre too new school. And I reject the results of the last 3 years. Protest!)
Also, off-topic, but the @JoeBoxley @HoozGotNext @brogdonfanpage podcast on STL was some quality off-season hoops content, and folks should go listen.
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Love the list @haney Iāll follow suit since Iām throwing rocks. is from 09 to present.
- Nova
- UNC
- KU
- Zags
- Duke
- UK
7.MSU - Wis
- Hoos
10.UCLA ā¦ think Iām lumping that Klove run into this time frame.
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Mmm Duke with 2 titles behind the Zags. Dragonās going Skip Bayless on Duke fans.
Also, two #7 teams is a controversial take.
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Haha you know it. List are made to start controversy and get clicks. Thatās what Iām here for.
Zags got a bump from recency bias for sure. I also ding Duke based on the amount of talent/recent talent success ratio.
MSU and Wis are basically the same to me when I look back on the last 15 years. Know theyāre going to be there, have an inexplicable tie to Virginia and I canāt name a player from either team until I hear the name and think āoh yea that guyā¦ he wasā¦ā
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Yāall are wild putting Gonzaga ahead of programs with sustained success and national titles. They should absolutely be first out of the programs without a title but should be behind every champion other than UConn.
I tried creating a spreadsheet to track tourney success in the Boxley period and remembered that my excel reach still exceeds my grasp. I created a spreadsheet that tells me that Nova won 2 nattys since 12-13. So Iāve got that going for meā¦
And even after you create that sheet, it doesnāt do the really hard task of valuing a Sweet 16, vs. Elite 8, Final 4, Championship game, Natty. Or just making it.
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I always find this take odd/funny. I think for a pro coach it makes sense.
But in college the coach is the GM too and itās arguably a more important part of the job description than actual game coaching.
No one wins at a high level without a ton of top tier talent. Either younger uber talented or older very talented.
That may be only piece of evidence we need to answer this question.
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But they are always in it ā¦ almost every year they give themselves a chance ā¦
Have only had double digit losses in a season twice since 1998
Yes yes I know they play in the WCC
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I think youāre right but that knife cuts both ways. A coach should be commended for gathering talent, but it is part of their job to go out and win with that talent. I donāt knock a coach for acquiring talent, I do knock them for not capitalizing and using that talent correctly. Itās essentially the exact argument that is played out week in and week out about TB on here.
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Cannot agree with this more.
On a different note thinking about Mid-Majors does Butler get a spot on this list for that 2 yr run or was that outside of the window?
Kansas, Duke, UVA, Baylor, Nova, UNC, and Kentucky are almost always in it too lol Iām not saying put them below mid tier programs. Iād have them as the top program not to win a title and above a fluke champion in UConn. But they need to be below every program who wouldnāt trade their last 10 years for the Zags last 10 years. And I donāt think a single UVA fan would trade our 10 years for theirs. Same for Baylor. Same for Duke. Etc. Theyāve done as well as you can without winning a title but at the end of the day you play to win the game.
Iāve been thinking about this. I think this is correct from a fanās standpoint. Nobody would trade. But I think from a pure success standpoint, you have to value two championship game appearances (Michigan/Zags) over a single natty? Right? Or am I off-base.
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I donāt. Runner up is still a loser. Big time programs play to win championships. Would you trade winning the Texas Tech game to have lost to Nova in the ā16 championship?
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As I continue to ham-handedly play with excel, I was looking at unique teams whoāve been to an Elite 8 since 2013 (so 9 tourneys). Poll for guesses, and then the spoiler:
How many?
- 25-30
- 31-35
- 36-40
- 41-45
0
voters
And the answer: 38
I already said no. I wouldnāt and nobody would. But you need to account for it, otherwise you have a hypothetical situation where a team who lost 10 natty games in a row could only be the 10th best team of the decade (well I guess 11th in a decade without a pandemic)
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I agree w this on a fan level, but I think we might* be more respected on a national level if we had two Marty appearances in 5 years
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I want ships. Rather be Nova than the Zags any day. Thatās the perfect combo of sustained success and winning. Also never want to be a TT a flash in the pan championship appearance.
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