I mean obviously yes of course. Every thing has bias. Thatās pretty obvious LOL (I think growing up in a household that never even watched american news exposed me to this at a young age). Just the snarkiness of that comment was offputting to say the least
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Great ACC expansion discussion, thanks everyone.
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Youāre right, this should often be an escape of sorts from other stuff.
Just hard to avoid sometimes given the world today. With the latest reversion to lockdowns in some states (mine of Washington included) and the tribal politicization of pretty much everything, having something we all agree on, like UVA Sports, seems pretty precious.
So taking it back to the ACC, Iāll repeat a suggestion I made somewhere - put Liberty and Tech in their own conference and let them play each other every game!!
Kidding, mostly. Did we come up with any good candidates? Villanova maybe?
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Nova would be ideal but highly unlikely because of the jump required to get their football program up to par. Outside of that it actually looks like conference expansion will be shelved until there is another massive shake up.
Perhaps once the Elite conference is formed with the top 15 or 20 programs that will open an opportunity to really shake things up.
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Since weāre playing in the world of āwhat-ifās,ā I have always been a fan of removing all geographic boundaries and going to the hyrid European soccer relegation approach for all power conference schools.
Imagine for college football (forgive the technicalities)- divisions of 12 teams.
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1st division: 11 regular season games in-division plus one non-counting ārivalryā game, top 3 teams play in CFB playoffs, bottom 3 teams get relegated to second division.
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2nd division: 11+1 regular season, top 2 teams play in a wild-card matchup for last CFB playoff spot, but both move up to first division the following year regardless, bottom 3 teams get relegated to third division.
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3rd division: 11+1 regular season, top 2 teams play in a bowl game for promotion to 1st division. 2nd and winner of 3 vs. 4 place game (Bowl game) get promoted to 2nd division. Bottom 3 get relegated to 4th division.
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4th division: 11+1 regular season, top 2 teams play for division championship and get automatic bid to 3rd division, 3 vs. 4 play for promotion to 3rd division. Bottom 3 get relegated to 5th division.
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5th division: 11+1 regular season, top 2 teams play for division championship and get automatic bid to 4th division, 3 vs. 4 play for promotion to 4th division. Bottom 3 get relegated to 6th division.
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6th division: 11+1 regular season, top 2 teams play for division championship and get automatic bid to 5th division, 3 vs. 4 play for promotion to 5th division. Bottom 4 teams would play against top 4 teams amongst āotherā conferences chosen by whatever appropriate method to be in the 6th division the following year.
In this model, all games would matter and be much better on a week to week basis. Throw in a bowl season where every game either leads to a division championship or promotion, college football would be pretty great. Granted, UVA would probably be in the 3rd or 4th division right now, but weād be in a position to move up to 2nd division.
Yeah, a bit silly and nobody would agree, but itād be pretty awesome to watch a top division of:
Alabama
Auburn
Clemson
Florida
Georgia
LSU
Notre Dame
Ohio State
Oklahoma
Oregon
Penn State
Texas A&M
(or something like that)
Yes, Iām a bit bored this morning, so why not dream? Iāll probably think about how this might work for college basketball too!
-e
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Fun to think about, but Iād think it might concentrate the better recruits in that top division even more than it does now. A 3rd or 4th division team would have a tough time.
I donāt know the answer, but is there a system that could help distribute the top recruits more? I donāt even know how to define ātop recruitā either. Top 300? Top 150?
All I know is that there are only about 7 or maybe 8 teams that really stand a chance of winning a national title in football. Basketball is much better that way.
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No one needs to pay any attention to TobaccoRdHoo. Go look at his post history on 247 and you will find out quickly that he is not someone to waste your time on.
If you donāt believe me Iāll help you out.
Edit: Lmao I suppose someone wanted to flag this because they didnāt like it 
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I love it! Whatās even crazier is I believe we are closer to that scenario than we realize. At some point in the next 5 to 10 yrs the elite teams will break off to form their own conference. The trickier part will be getting buy in for promotion =relegation
Realistically, Harvard and Princeton donāt try to instill a system so the best students in the country will also consider Virginia Tech. Should college football strive for forced equity with athletes? Iād imagine the top two divisions would have a significant recruiting advantage, so this system would at least put Clemson with the teams they belong with instead of beating up on the Dukes, UNCās and UVaās of the world.
But in the end, kids may want to play for the best teams first, but theyād rather start and play anywhere else rather than sit on the bench. Maybe Iām being naive but I think this would actually help recruiting because top players who choose to play in a lower division wouldnāt have to get slaughtered by the top division teams that are stacked with top athletes. Just make sure players can transfer without waiting to any team as long as itās outside of the division.
-e
Good points. Interesting debate, and I imagine people would have different priorities, of course.
Iām less a fan of the concentration of realistic title teams in only really 6-7 schools. Nobody else has a chance with the playoff system, depth of talent in those teams, and concentration of talent in the top teams.
Sure, other teams get their occasional 5-star and a handful of 4-stars while having a shot at the CFP semifinals, but I still love that in any given year, any number of teams can get through the NCAA tournament and win, while Duke and Kentucky canāt do the same thing in basketball that Alabama and Clemson can do in football.
Fun debate, regardless, so I appreciate your idea!
Thereās realistically only about a dozen teams that have realistic title chances on a regular basis. Since thereās twice as many basketball teams as football teams, itās pretty proportional.
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Iād say itās easier (on a relative basis) in basketball than football to recruit a handful of guys that can raise a program significantly with a chance to win.
That doesnāt mean itās easy - Oregon has recruited very well but hasnāt gotten over the hump. Washington has gotten a bunch of top guys but didnāt have the coaching.
A football team would have to recruit multiple top classes with depth over a number of years.
But anyway, the topic is ACC expansion, so I still think Villanova would be the best option without major realignment. Their football program would take a long time to build, but no different beating them than another lower-end D1.
The DC market is fulfilled with UVA & VT. Navyās addition doesnāt move the needle to enhance the ESPN deal. The current ACC deal with ESPN goes to 2036. Worldwide Leader isnāt re-structuring a long term deal for Navy.
Moreover, jury is still out if ND will ever join a conference for football. The alumni will continue to underwrite football at a level to remain free of conference affiliation. Plus, they will have the NBC deal for football. No doubt by 2024, a new CFP deal that rewards ND as an independent will be extended. That may also permit 8 teams, giving ND less reason to give up its football independence.
So why would ND ever join the ACC for football?
Also, ACC schools will NEVER approve WVU or Liberty for membership. League Presidents/Chancellors were choking on their own vomit by admitting Louisville with an academic ranking in USN&WR of #194. They had little choice with Marylandās sudden departure. It left instability during a time when the ACC was still vulnerable. WVU is ranked #224 and Liberty is well beyond that number. No other ACC school has a ranking worst than #85 (NC State). And with all other schools #56 or better, except VT at #75, the academic threshold makes it difficult for other schools to clear. When you add ānew TV marketā to the criteria equation, the list is quite limited.
So forget Vanderbilt. Their SEC payout nearly doubles what each ACC school earns. As long as BC objects, UCONN will never be invited. A 3rd Florida school will never gain approval from Miami/FSU. Cincinnati is an āsoftā option, but the ACC has no reason to expand in the minds of many board members, with or without ND joining as a full member.
While ACC expansion is enjoyable fodder for message board talk, it is not a high priority for ACC board of directors. Where the focus must be is on improving football. That is why the league trails B1G & SEC in revenue ā overall league must produce better football results.
There is one wild card ā Texas. Iāve had this conversation before with senior league officials. If Texas agreed to join the ACC, it would be approved with little resistance. But there appears a higher likelihood of Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, OU & OK St leaving the Big 12 to merge with USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Arizona & ASU to create a new SouthWest Conference. A repackaged conference would also emerge most likely called the PAC-Mountain Conference Oregon, OSU, UW, WSU, Colorado, Colorado State, KU, K-State, BYU, Boise St, Iowa St, Utah St, Wyoming & SDSU.
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Dragon, I appreciate your input to the boards and the podcasts! I saw you got called out below with regard to your stance on Liberty and I wanted to chime in as a recent alumnus.
I read the slate article and I donāt believe that some of the issues discussed are applicable any longer. I agree that Jerry Jr. was a polarizing figure and that the university is better off under different leadership.
I would love to discuss the article or anything else regarding Liberty with you. It is a place that I truly love and I believe that it is often misrepresented by the media and its detractors as well as by its own history and leadership.
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It sounds like much of your quarrel is with the Falwell family and much of that is probably well deserved. The university also deserves some criticism, as do all institutions, but I believe they are often targeted unfairly. I would be happy to discuss my experience at LU and to give you a āpeek behind the curtainā into the real Liberty community rather than the one portrayed in the articles you have linked.
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LibertyUHoo, I agree with much of what you posted. I do think that many people who oppose Liberty will be in for a big surprise. I think Covid-19 is going to make travel costs and regional footprint very important during future expansion decisions. Liberty has a lot to offer a conference! Just not from the traditional factor of TV market. However, Libertyās athletic reputation will grow faster than VTās did after being admitted to the ACC, with more potential TV viewers nationally.
I personally believe there are a lot of valid reasons why people do not support Liberty University. Iām also sure that many people have had a great experience attending LU that fall within a certain category or political/āmoralā belief.
The most euphemistic way that I can say it is that some of LUās stances are socially divisive. From a purely business perspective and in order to avoid a publicly damaging scenario, I donāt think itās something the ACC would be wise pursue.
@LibertyUHoo I appreciate you have recent context, but Iāve been around long enough to know that culture doesnāt change overnight. Iām optimistic that it is changing but will leave it at that.
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I think Liberty has the potential to have a strong athletic program, but I worry about what that will mean for the university as a whole. An example of this is the hirings of Ian McCaw and Hugh Freeze who both have questionable backgrounds. Will Liberty be able to compete for recruits while maintaining the code of conduct? To my knowledge only BYU has a similar code and they have the complete backing of the LDS church and community.
I agree that the ACC should not and would not extend an invitation to Liberty. Most any stance that an institution supports will likely be seen as divisive by someone.
If your only exposure to Liberty is through reading the mediaās perspective or Jerry Jrās tweets itās easy to understand why you would see Liberty as a toxic institution. I am simply challenging the view of LUās culture that has been expressed by you and others above.
Liberty adds 0 to the ACC, thereās no way itād ever be extended an invitation. I can see the Big 12 taking a look though, creates a travel pair with WVU and adds to the geographical footprint. Before that happens though, LU might have to prove itself in CUSA or the Sun Belt. Or the AAC lost UConn and might be looking for a replacement.
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