✂ Cuts From The Corner: Preseason Piece

Just to level set this: Cuts prediction was 19/21 Grünloh/Ugo. So basically a platoon.

Also, Clark was a 4 in the A-10 and a 3.5 in the ACC, so IMO not the most germane precedent when we are trying to figure out center minutes in the ACC. (To be fair, Clark did play 4 for NC state)

If we only wind up getting 10-15 from Ugo, which seems entirely possible, I’d guess it’s more like 20-25 Grünloh and 5-10 TDR / small ball / Lewis at the 4.

(And this would be in ACC / P5 play, non-blowouts. I assume we will see some Lang, Barksdale, etc minutes in buy games and blowouts)

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Also it’s not like Cuts is pulling the Ugo as a starter narrative out of his ass.

The tidbits coming out of practice have been very high on Ugo and I think multiple times have mentioned he’s got a real chance at starting especially early in the season with Grünloh still acclimating to the college game. Maybe that ends up just being coachspeak, but again not like it’s coming out of thin air or strictly based off his play at Kentucky/Kansas State.

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FWIW - I said 21… basically even time but a slight nod. I don’t think either will get 25+ and bet 22 is the ceiling for either.

And I’m not sure what reputation I’m staking on this one idea. I’m right and wrong all of the time! Thinking about these things up front and then reviewing in retrospect/learning is the whole point, to me. If Grünloh seems able to command more time without fatigue and with a positive offensive/defensive impact, I’ll be the first to push for it.*

*Maybe not literally but I’ll be open to doing so.

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Also, yeah, Clark was the 4 and rarely played Center. I want TDR to play a lot of minutes, too, but not many minutes at the C.

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Cuts never said that. Haney said Cuts said it a couple times, but he was wrong.

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I frequently Shazam effect myself. Cuts said 19/21.

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As an aside, this piece was a blast to write/think about.

Past seasons, you kind of already had a really good sense of how a guy fit into CTB’s system and how he was going to be used (more or less) and then it was mostly anticipating that and then recent pitfalls and kind of trying to anticipate what the ideal line would be, etc. Shorter rotation, figuring out who’d make the final cut, etc.

This was a much more interesting thought exercise, watching all of the player tape, learning and trying to figure out what Odom prioritizes across three different stops, and then how all of those pieces best marry into what he’s most likely to do. Also going to be learning a lot about how to take what Odom says to the media and what gets out from the team vs. what they do in actuality….

It’s going to be really fun to see how it all comes together this year but then to look back when the year is over and connect all of the dots.

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Are we going to get some video or a stream from the scrimmages?

No streaming for Vandy. Hopefully plentiful highlight videos and tidbits from viewers.

Nova will be streamed on ACCNX.

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Finally finished, good read!

Confession time: this is I think the third Cuts piece that I’ve read in its entirety. They are just so damn long and I don’t have the time. I always have the interest though, in many cases I just read the intro and conclusion.

On that note though, how do you have the time to write all these? How long does it typically take? I’d imagine all the clipping and embedding on player specific pieces is very time consuming too.

Anyway, nice work! Excited to see how it comes together this season

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Thanks! I’m glad you got through it!

It really depends on the piece. Hard to estimate because there’s a lot of video watching before even picking things to clip. The system pieces (Offensive and defensive system) are the longest because I tried to get a good sample size from all three of his stops. Then the transfer pieces. Those are nice because I can kind of take my time with them and chip away over a couple of weeks during the offseason.

The real grind is the in-season pieces because sometimes there’s really a tight turn around between games and I have to record the whole game (sometimes after driving back up from C’Ville), usually will watch it and time stamp a bunch of stuff I might use, categorize the clips with a little blurb about why I’m clipping it, then go through and figure out what to use and then write and bring in the clips.

I think I figured those take about 8-10* hrs… which is why this year I’m probably going to try to scale down the number of clips this year… but, I always think that and end up getting carried away. So, hard to say, especially with everything being so new.

How do I find time? Burning the midnight oil after my family goes to sleep and scrapping any other non-family hobby in-season, haha.

*Some games go a little crazy.

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I’m not bashing you. It’s nice to have someone do some in depth pieces on Virginia basketball. It’s just that in this situation – projecting 21 minutes per game for Ugo as our starting center – is so obviously contradicted by every piece of evidence that it calls your judgment into question. If you look at Odom’s rotations, playing style, and roles, and then consider the totality of Ugo’s career, you don’t see any evidence for Odom starting a true center who is extremely limited offensively and playing him 21 minutes per game. It’s a bad fit. Ugo is a long-legged seven footer who can run the floor, but hauling his 250 pound frame up and down the floor for 21 minutes per game at Odom’s pace? “I fell in love with the fast game,” Odom said in his introductory press conference. “You can see that at all my different stops.” Instead, it’s glaringly obvious that Ugo will have a big, important role as a defensive stopper, but as a rotational and situational piece, not a starter. And that Grünloh’s skill set is a much better fit despite obviously being the weaker defender.

Your comment that “I do think having the best defender back there will be the most valuable thing” to Odom is a total misread of Odom’s style. Odom has proven, over and over, that he will trade defense for offense. That’s not to say that Ugo won’t play an important role. Odom likes to anchor his defense with a shot blocker and then have his wings play aggressive help defense to try to force turnovers and start the fast break. Ugo can do that, and I expect we’ll see it early as Grünloh get acclimated. But Ugo can’t do it for 21 minutes per game. And Odom gives up a lot on the offensive end of the floor to get it. You know Odom is drooling over the pairing of Grünloh and Hall – if those two can execute together, it puts so much pressure on the defense that you’re going to have lots of room for Thomas, De Ridder, and White to feast.

To me, the best case scenario is that Grünloh develops quickly and plays 20+ minutes. Maybe a lot more. Remember, Grünloh has been averaging well over 20 minutes per game for Rasta for the last two years – in the last 95 games Grünloh has played, he’s averaged 23 minutes per game. In the last 64 games Ugo has played, he’s averaged 11. Grünloh has a lot to prove at this level, but Odom is obviously betting on him. If, by February, you’re right and Ugo plays more than Grünloh, it’s probably a very bad sign for the team.

You see Grünloh and Ugo averaging about the same minutes, with the edge to Ugo. But their games are radically different, and Grünloh fits what Odom wants to do. And the only evidence you have to the contrary is a happy-speak coach’s quote about Ugo’s offense in practice.

There’s always a danger, as a writer, that you fall in love with your own conclusions and can be blind to what the evidence actually says. Again, I’m not bashing you, just your wild projection about Ugo’s playing time that is not backed by any evidence. The great thing you do is you provide evidence – you show the tape, you break down the film. In this case, there is simply no evidence supporting the idea that Ugo is going to play 21 minutes as Odom’s starting center. And there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

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I think if you read my pieces on Odom’s offensive and defensive systems, my piece on Ugo, Grünloh, and then this piece… I provide about as much evidence as anyone would be willing to support my opinion.

You’re welcome to disagree with it or question my credibility if you so desire.

The rationale is all out there. I think you’re confusing disagreeing with evidence with not providing evidence.

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JFC, show us on the doll where Ugo hurt you >

Does it help at all that the very first rumblings of Ugo starting came from HGN? Is HGN credible?

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Actually, as I mentioned above, I imagine Coach Odom might want the BEST defensive rebounder at the 5 position in order to initiate the offense. Unlike Coach Bennett’s teams, I don’t think we’re going to see the guards crashing the defensive boards. And, the defensive rebound is where the offense begins. I have no idea whether that will be Onyenso or Grünloh, but if they’re equally proficient in this regard, then a 50/50 split in playing time seems quite likely to me. Of course, I’ve been wrong before in these matters

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Except for the piece where the coaches and team keeps hyping him up, mentioning his offense organically and without prompting, and the reporting earlier in the spring that Grünloh was taking some time to settle in and adjust (only in last week have reports been more optimistic). All that stuff has been covered here and to me is the most compelling reason to think he’ll get starter level mins if not start, whatever you think of his skills.

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The last thing this debate needs is for me to keep it going…

#With that being said…

  1. Ugo played 20+ minutes a game, the last 14 minutes per game, on a very fast Kentucky team. So there’s a big precedent.

I don’t think Odom has ever had such a clear choice at the center position as we think he might have this year, but just last year, he essentially played a defensive rim protector as his center - Bambgoye

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I think this is the clear rebuttal. Bambgoye is a very statistically similar player to Ugo and Odom played him ~17mpg as a freshman (and that went steadily up as the season went on, he was 20+ in 5 of their last 7 games) when Odom had more offensively-minded guys available on the bench.

Edit - A minor point I haven’t seen brought up yet is that Ugo is surprisingly good at avoiding fouls. His foul/minute rate is much better than any recent UVA big man. Saunders is probably the guy he’s most comparable to in that regard. Big men getting worn out is obviously a problem, but keeping them on the floor and out of foul trouble has also been an issue and he’s pretty good at that.

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Yup - plus I meant to say “stark choice” not “clear choice”

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Can you envision a scenario where Sam Lewis plays the 4 position when Thijs De Ridder needs a break? Lewis has comparable height and shooting abilities as Tillis, but fewer liabilities in athleticism. Lewis also has more defensive upside against top ACC forwards. This would essentially involve a 4-guard lineup.

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