Yeah sorry I missed the main point of the era: these were Doug Smith years! And yes that was the beginning of Arena’s amazing championship streak. Pre-Klockner when they had to play in Scott. Man those were the days.
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Klockner opened in 90 I think? For soccer
Edit: nonetheless great time for UVa sports
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Listening to the Hawkins-Covington podcast and Hawk compared Armstrong last year to this year like Skip to my Lou getting to the league! Ha ha! Funny analogy. Though, tbh, I can’t remember much about Rafer Alston in the league…
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Haha love that comparison
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Solid 11 year career - including a 7 year run as a starter.
Career as a starter - about:
12 pts per game, 5.5 assists, 2 turnovers, 1.4 steals, 35% from 3
Armstrong would love to have as good a pro career…
p.s. - But i get the comp … went from playground ball - freewheeling style to a more structured system
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Elliott on paper seemed like a great hire, but things have not turned out so well. I think the buyout becomes very reasonable after 3 years, so unless things turn around a lot more than I expect them to really soon, I don’t see him lasting past those 3 years.
Schools in our position will never out-recruit or out-talent our competition. You have to hire a guy with a gimmick who is recruiting players to his system that other schools don’t prioritize because they don’t meet the traditional definition of good, but they’re very good at what you need to excel in whatever system you employ.
This worked when we hired Tony Bennett. He had his defense first pack line and recruited players for it and within a few years, he was winning a lot.
Get a successful G5 coach with a defined system identity. A guy who knows how to win with lesser talent and facilities. Preferably someone who has P5 assistant experience and understands thee recruiting demands. Hire experienced coordinators who can install and run good schemes and position coaches who can teach and coach guys up mixed with a couple guys who can find and recruit underrated talent. Don’t hire guys known for bringing in 5 star talent, those guys aren’t coming here.
/end rant
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Yeah I dont think the hiring a first time coach in Elliot and then bringing in an offensive coordinator like Des who isn’t proven at all is a good combo. Elliot needs to focus on learning how to lead as a head coach/not manage OC duties. And hiring staff for the sake of recruiting was a huge whiff of an idea in the age of NIL. Thank god we got Rud as DC.
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Elliott may not work out. But Tony Bennett came in with head coaching experience and a system, as you said, and he still lost 9 games in a row, most by double digits, at the end of his first year. It’s possible for a coach to struggle early and turn out great. No idea whether Elliott will succeed, but it’s just too early to know for sure.
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I’m with you on some of this, but ultimately Tony B. caught up to, and then passed, the rest of the ACC because he hit big on a lot of guys that were a bit under-recruited (Joe, Malc, Dre - the holy trinity) and then got enough higher ranked guys, too. I mean, I don’t want to get bogged down in another hoops recruiting convo in a football topic, but basically, we got better because we upgraded the talent. (I guess that’s my major difference of opinion – those guys would be good in any system. Hence their NBA success).
In every major sport, talent accumulation is table stakes. I guess that’s my problem with the theory that says we need to get a guy who is good at finding underrated talent. I feel like that was Tony B’s step 1 of a few to upgrade the talent, but the problem is finding a guy who can do steps 2 and 3, too.
These hoops to football comparisons get tricky… but I guess my last thought is that after yesterday, I’m moving slightly closer to the Tony E doubters, but your post is going a step further, and saying that not only is Tony E not the right guy, but we shouldn’t have even looked to bring in someone from the college football established firmament. And I’m less convinced the theory is bad.
To that point it’s also easier to turn around a basketball program. One player can bring about a world of change. Not as easy to do on a football team esp. if long term success is the goal.
@4547Lambeth rant pretty much nails the current situation. Sometimes (most of the time) in coach and hiring things don’t work out. Coach Elliott had/has all the right stuff on paper but through 5 games it’s not panned out. There’s still a lot of time to turn the ship around, and honestly not like we are asking him to return the team to national glory ala Nebraska or Miami. So the end goal is still reachable, although it seems less likely with this regime.
For me the true test/story will be in year 3 of Coach Elliott’s deal when he has his guys (however good they are) to run his system. It could turn out with the guys can get that the whole thing doesn’t work. No clue, but I don’t want to burry a guy for not winning with someone else’s pieces.
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Elliot inhereited the qb and wide receivers of a top 10 offense though. There was potential there. Play a system that plays to their strengths.
I think this is a three or four win team in terms of talent. Bronco got more out of them then any new HC could reasonably be expected.
Bronco screwed over the players and the coach taking over. Too many unreasonable expectations (myself included).
That said, still not high on Coach Elliott being the guy but I’ve come closer to the middle.
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I second this
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Bennett inherited ACC Rookie of the Year Sylven Landesburg and future NBA player Mike Scott. But Bennett was determined to do it his way and even kicked Landesburg off the team.
Clearly the offense isn’t what it was, but every time I see Armstrong make an errant pass to an open receiver or receivers repeatedly dropping passes when open, I wonder how those are Tony Elliott’s fault.
I’m not really defending Elliott, I just think it’s too early to tell whether it’s going to work.
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A bit of a sad story here. The replay official in Clemson-NC State passed after the game. Was a Wahoo. So was his daughter, who was in my class. Longtime ACC official, then replay official.
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No, not exactly…I was more thinking a guy from the MAC or Sun Belt or AAC who had previously been a high level P5 assistant. Even a retread former P5 coach. Someone who 1) already knows how to build and run a program and 2) has a defined offensive and/or defensive identity (preferably one that’s designed to overcome talent disadvantages). A guy who has worked in a number of places and has numerous contacts from which he could hire a coaching staff would be preferred too.
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It’s a tight rope to walk. For me the key takeaway is knowing the state of the program, it may just be too difficult a lift for a first time HC to take on, sure someone could do it but odds are it’s going to be hard given the amount of infrastructure/culture they have to overcome. The goal should be find a coach who is still A)young enough enough and hungry enough (this weeds out the retreads and the last rodeo types) to grind and do the work to build essentially something from nothing. B)that person also needs to have had some experience both as an HC, and experience in the P5 world because those are the waters they are going to swim in.
When you break it down to that, honestly the pool of candidates gets real small.
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And even smaller when you add (C), wants to come coach at UVa vs whatever his other options are
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So true. Honestly takes a special type. Same reason finding CTB was 1 in a million. Not easy to find someone who ticks all those boxes.
Anyone who thinks Bronco wouldn’t be gone after this season with Wis and Neb jobs open is lying to themselves.
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