Go full AI and get him off the ball like 70 percent of the time. When he is on the ball/ ball dominant his instincts kick in and he wants to just take his man, I think
He seems like a big time competitor (like AI) and needs challenges. Sometimes that can hurt the team and him if he always has the ball in his hand, ya know?
Yeah, I mean, thatās what I think is the real nub of the problem. They might be capped at a 4/5 seed even if it works out okay. For them to be better, my guy Mt Rushmore Dre has to take the leap (or something similar from another guy on the team).
Agree, they need another superstar. Trae is one and is a bucket. Murray brings defense and reliable scoring, but Iām not sure heās a superstar or a bucket in a pinch. Dre becoming a versatile reliable scorer would be huge. Collins embracing all his potential would also do it and be a match up nightmare. But without that 3rd person they arenāt making a jump. In no particular order, Bucks, Nets, Celtics, Heat, 76ers are more talented, experienced and grizzled.
Ok Iāll bite/
Trae or
Brunson + Mikal Bridges
what would be better for the current Hawks?
And yes Iām still mad at the Celtics for not figuring out a way to leverage their assets to get Lukaā¦
They originally had the #8 and #27 picks that year plus Marcus Smart would have done it.
I mean, I think probably Trae. Brunson and Bridges are great, but I think theyāre great as second or third (or lower) options (as the Knicks might find out this year).
Agreed. While itās possible that 2 standard guards could replace Trae and the Hawks wouldnāt lose too much. The reality is the Hawks have a low ceiling with/without Trae.
Brunson + Bridges is a good duo but as @haney said those two are 2nds and 3rds depending on the roster. Two 2ās donāt make a 1 generally.
So are we saying Trae is a 1 then? Honest question.
I think he is. Not a great 1. But heās a 1. The Hawks built around him and have seen the most success the franchise had in my lifetime I believe. But heās a 1 like Bradley Beal is a 1.
They are 1ās until they meet an alpha 1 (KD, Lebron, Steph, Giannis) at that point they become a high 2.
Iām also making this up as I goā¦ but itās making sense in my head.
Then that makes him Joe Johnson 2.0. Atlanta made that low ceiling high floor choice before.
Great pointā¦ now that Iām thinking about Atlanta always seems to fumble their way into this situation. I do think he (Trae) has more upside than Joe Johnson.
Alright, Iām going into retirement as a Trae Young defender, but if we are looking for ATL disappointments as to why they havenāt been a more serious playoff contender** the last year or so, and this werenāt a UVa board, would we say that Dre as the 4th pick or Trae as the 5th pick is the more disappointing player so far?
Basically, Dre needs to stay healthy and live up to the hype (including my hype) and then we can more fairly evaluate if Trae is slightly better Joe Johnson.
** Also, Trae went nuts and took the eventual winners (Bucks) to Game 6 in 2021, which was about as good as Luka taking the Warriors to Game 5 last year, if we really want to compare head to head.
(I honestly think part of this is heās a really polarizing guy. Which is true. But heās like pretty awesome! And I just wish more folks acknowledged the guy is pretty awesome.)
You are right. Joe Johnson didnāt give them as high a floor when he was their max contract #1 option.
And the Beal example is sound. Iāve always thought about guys like this (non-alphas making max deals in non-prime markets without a cohesive studs and scrubs roster) as albatrosses. Too expensive to lure other stars on a discount, not dynamic enough to carry a franchise to true championship relevance.
But how many guys like that are there? Like 4 or 5? Yeah, heās not one of those guys.
While I see what youāre saying, I just think we need another word for these guys.
Yeah most hawks fans would blame their struggles on Dre and Cam being busts so far.
If Cam and Dre had been serviceable high 30s 3pt shooters who played acceptable defense, the hawks would look phenomenal
Dre and Cam not living up to their top potential absolutely has hurt the Hawks and youāre right to place blame there.
The counter argument to that is they are not being used to correctly. (not the best argument I know). But Dre is not a stand in the corner stretch player. Itās tough to surround a guy who pounds the rock the way Trae does with complimentary players. Look at the cycles Houston went through with Harden and were left with nothing.
For me the rub is you can win with a player like Trae and he will get hot and take you to crazy heights (21 ECF) but itās tough to depend on that on a consistent basis. And with the way the team has to be built thereās not really a viable second option.
I do believe there is a tier of players like @buzby references that are greatish and max/near max players are are for a variety of reasons in terrible situations and as a result mid level teams at best. Beal is the extreme example at this point very good player on a pretty bad team.
I think for Dre the knock is just staying healthy right? He shot 38% from 3 last year, 36% career.
Never understood how Cam Reddish was valued so highly, out of HS or college. What is he supposed to do well exactly?
Health is the No.1 for me. Dreās missed time every season 63 games is the max heās played. Got to get on the court more than that.
Iāve never seen Reddish do anything that makes me think heās more than a role player.
Yeah reddish was garbage in college (except for the game in JPJ where he was Steph for a night). 5-8 for 3 for a guy who shot 35% OVERALL for the year
Also is CTB the Tom Thibodeau of college hoops? Lotta guys making the league and breaking down. (Iām only partially kidding)
Itās crossed my mind, but I think heās much kinder, gentler, plus even Tony doesnāt focus on defense like Thibs. 
Honestly, I think the major difference is Thibs has a lifecycle and wears out his welcome (year 1: these guys are playing with so much more intensity! Yay ā¦ Year 4: Get Thibs outta here!) whereas Tony generally gets better with age.
And on the over-use thing, I donāt really think Tony is an outlier with usage.