This guy gets it
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Canāt we also say that if Morris takes Twitty against State we win that game? Or if he doesnāt get hurt against Wake we win that game? Or if we donāt get Duke one of the two extra possessions we did with ST errors we win that game? All I was saying is that although those 5 games came with plays that went our way, we were also one play away in all of our losses as well
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4th? Apparently we finished 13th in 1951.
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But we spent $20 million on the roster we should be more dominant in those games, no? Why are we in a one possession game with a dying Wake program or an NC State team with a freshman QB?
@BillyHoyle 's post sums it up
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Are we really, sitting here with no bowl appearances since 2021, upset that we werenāt more dominant after an 11 win season? Iām pretty staggered by that tbh
Something to note about that roster price too is that arguably our most important non Morris transfer played zero snaps (Mills)
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Iām happy with the seasons. Very happy.
Also frustrated that, with the way things elsewhere in the ACC panned out, we actually had a historically rare opportunity to make the CFP and blew it. Biggest game in our recent history against a mediocre team weād beaten before this season, and we couldnāt win that game.
I think itās ok to feel both ways. Obviously feels insane because you could say āif I offered you 11 wins at the beginning of the season would you take it?ā And of course yes, and Iād be ecstatic. But the road you travel also affects your feelings, not just the destination. And Iām still pretty fucking bummed we didnāt manage to make it to the CFP when it was right there. That was a really unique positive opportunity for this entire program.
I also still donāt know if Elliott is a good coach. Definitely a good dude. But I need to see more than one good season following the absolute mediocrity of the past few seasons before I hop onboard.
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Upset? I had a lot of fun this season. (i think in online communication we project alot. Or at least I do and this itself is projection).
Do I think the product on the field reflected $20 million? No. And the taste we got makes me want to believe we could be the next Indiana. Especially if we are even more financed after this season.
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Hope this helps you gain some certainty about how to make this argument:
11-win season:
- Great!
- But the schedule was total ass. We knew this before the season, during the season, and we can still know it now. Iām not making this up! This has been a common mantra!
- The other contenders I have in mind (95 and 98) featured better wins, and more of them, and no losses the caliber of Wake Forest.
Proper drubbing of our in-state rival:
- Great!
- However, they stank! They canned their coach a few games in.
- Other contenders for best season either beat a good VPI team and on the road (98), or lost in heartbreaking fashion to a good VPI team (95).
Win over an SEC team in a bowl:
- Great!
- However, it is widely acknowledged (including in this very thread!) that non-CFP bowl games are more or less meaningless and now feature substantial sit-outs such that gamblers know they are stay-aways unless you just love the thrill (and gamblers do), so a win in one of those meaningless games doesnāt seem like a good piece of evidence.
- One other contender (95) for best season featured a bowl win over an SEC team.
Loss to a mediocre Duke team with a trip to the CFP on the line:
- 25: Yes
- 95: No
- 98: No
Does that give you some certainty as to how to make that argument if called upon in the future?
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The schedules in the 90s was pretty insane compared to todayās schedules.
First, there were only 11 games, but of those 11 games, 8 were conference games against every other member of the 9 team ACC so no luck of the draw in missing tough teams or bad teams or fluke teams. Then 1 game vs VT. Plus we always scheduled a game vs another (at the time) P6 opponent. The 11th game was against a G5 or state I-AA school that we should easily beat.
And back then a few schools a year were allowed to play a 12 game if it was part of the Kickoff Classic or something like that. In 1995, we participated and played Michigan.
But I mean if youāre comparing 95 to 25, what makes for a better season, playing and losing to all these tough teams or playing and beating lesser teams? Would Texas fans say the season they had was better than a season where they beat Ohio U instead of losing to Ohio State? Winning matters.
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Yeah, sorry. Weāre just going to have to agree to disagree on this. This was without a doubt, the best season in program history.
Given the flailing of the last 20 years as a program, given the shift in adapting to the NIL era, given how much recruiting has shifted from the 90s where lots of top talent stayed in state, given the shooting incident we had to endure as a program, this season was absolutely incredible.
We were picked 15th in the preseason!!! And that was with our weak schedule. Vegas had us at 5.5 wins.
We exceeded expectations by every measure and that should be celebrated!
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Agree that winning matters. Which is why Iād agree that winning so much against our bad schedule would make for the best season ever IF we had beaten Duke and gone to the CFP.
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Agree with all these paragraphs
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If this were the 90s we wouldāve been crowned outright ACC champions after the regular season with a trip to the Orange Bowl to play Big East champ Miami. Youāre penalizing 25 for an extra game that 95/98 didnāt have to play. And 89/95 only tied for the conference championship.
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Pretty sure our ACC record in the 90s wouldnāt include games against Cal, Stanford, Tech, etcā¦ weād have gone 3-2 in conference with wins over UNC, Duke, FSU, and losses to Wake and NCState.
Maybe I shouldāve phrased it if we were using the ACC conference championship rules of the 90sā¦
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Knew what you meant, sorry for being obnoxious
Nah you werenāt obnoxious. All good, no worries.
Donāt poop me @Jerome. Make an argument. (Psst - there isnāt one)
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This only makes sense if Iām going by a pure wins metric, but Iām not.
Hereās my point: I generally think this yearās schedule was bad, but so what, we put ourselves in place to capitalize on it to get to the matchup/tourney that determines the natty winner. That wouldāve been a pipe dream in the 90s!**
But then having gotten there, we crapped the bed! With a mediocre team to beat!
** so it seems to me that what this year has over that year is an easier schedule and an easier path to the natty determining game / tourney. But even given that easier path, we mucked it!
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